SPEAKER_01 0:00

How do you deal with that situation where like you start off with a client and then you realize after a couple of weeks this client's just a numpty and they're just not going to give me what I need to actually get results? Do you just fire them or how do you coach them through that?

SPEAKER_02 0:12

I think it depends, right? There's levels to it, right? Like if it's someone who's just a blatant dickhead, like you have no tolerance for that. Like you're just like, hey, sorry, man. Like I fucking messed up. You should have never worked here. Like you I should have never let you never let you in, right? So for those guys, you can let them go like right away.

SPEAKER_04 0:25

Security. Um, right?

SPEAKER_02 0:27

For the people where it's just like they're not implementing certain things, like it's just client management 101, right? So if I notice for a few weeks things aren't getting implemented and it's moving slowly, I'll just schedule a call with them and just reset expectations, right? And let them know, like, hey, here's the objective that we set when we started working together. Here's what we're doing on our end, but we're bottlenecked because we're not getting these things in time. Like, is this something you still want to achieve? Because we're gonna give you everything you need, but like we're not, we're like bottlenecked by this one thing, right? And just reset expectations with them. And a lot of times, like you'll you'll find out that either you they weren't getting enough context from you, you weren't giving them enough, or they're like, no shit, man. Like, I'm just really busy right now. Like, like, can we work something? And then you just have to find like a compromise for those people. But like, I just like to reset expectations and a lot of like 90% of the time, if you reset expectations, retie it back to the goal that they want, like they're like, oh yeah, dude, I understand I messed up. I'll I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:15

If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the Agency Hour Podcast, brought to you by Agency Mavericks.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Hey, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to uh another episode of the Agency Hour live here in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. That's one James Murgatroyd, one, two. I think we have two. There we go. He knows what I'm talking about, no one else does, and that's the way it should be. Sorry, we're running a little bit late. Had a bit of a disrupted night of sleep last night. That's what happens when you have a five-year-old and a two-year-old who come into your bed in the middle of the night and scratch around like meth addicts and keep you awake. However, we are here. We are live in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group, and this is an episode of the Agency Hour where we help you grow your agency, whether that's a web design agency, an SEO agency, or a digital marketing agency, design, branding, funnels, copy, you name it, uh, this is the show where you come and learn about how to grow that agency of yours and turn it into a profitable asset for you. And we talk about uh sales and marketing, we talk about lead gen, we talk about growing your team, we talk about becoming more profitable, we talk about productizing, recurring revenue, all the good stuff. So if you are listening to this and you're in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group, let us know in the comments where you are from so we can get an affirmative that it's all working. And uh it's all also just good to know where people are from in the world. And if you are listening to this on your AirPods or your God forbid, Samsung Galaxy Plus Buds or whatever those bloody horrible things are that I tried to use recently and couldn't get them to talk to anything except the fridge. Uh, if you're listening to us on some kind of earphone device, come and join the Digital Mavericks Facebook group because we have lots of fun and we have new cameras and lights and we're showing off. So come and check it out and be a part of the conversation. Today, I'm very, very pleased to bring a special guest to talk to us about probably the number one conversation that we have here with our clients and the number one question we get asked all the time, which is how do I just go and get me some more clients? And to debunk this myth and to break it down and to tell us everything he knows, I'm gonna introduce you to our very own fractional CMO. We're gonna talk about what the hell that means too. Please welcome all the way from Canadia, my good friend Tissu Chandra Artana. Hey Tissu, how you doing, brother?

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Doing good, doing good. Canadia. That's a new way to put it. Excited to be on.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

You even put on a nice shirt for the show, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 3:50

I literally, I was wearing a black crap, like a crap black shirt. I just changed. Like I had to.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

I've only ever seen you in like crappy black t-shirts, man. I don't even know who you are. What have you got to do?

SPEAKER_02 4:00

It's either the black shirt or the white shirt. Both from HM for $10.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

There we go. No expense spent. Hey, so for those that uh for those that don't know, who are you? What are you doing here? What do you do? And where are you from?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Yeah, so I'm from Canada. And uh yeah, I guess long story short, we have a company that specializes in scaling brands. A lot of our companies, uh, like Troy mentioned, we come in as a fractional chief marketing officer for their brand. Um, we've been doing it for about the past five years now, and yeah, our company's called Scale with Less, and that's really the omission. You know, our goal is to create the world's top paid on results consulting firm. And uh we got a long way to go, but that's the objective and the plan.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Um, how did you and I meet?

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I'm assuming you probably clicked one of our ads and probably ended up in our world, right? I think you're probably scrolling through feed and saw, you know, this little brown guy and then went through.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

100%. I'll tell you exactly where I was. I was in a little town called Tut Guruuk here in Melbourne and down the coast. I every now and then I try and do this a couple of times a year where I get away on like a little retreat, just myself, I go away to Airbnb for a few days and take my guitar and uh do some work and write and think and strategize. And it was on that trip last December, I know because I'd just I'd literally driven past the car dealership on the way down there and placed an order for my new car, which I was very excited about. And I went down there and uh I was scrolling through the feed and I was like, I really need to get myself out of marketing and get some leverage in this business. And there you were promising a 10 times guaranteed ROI. And I'm like, well, holy shit. Uh I'm just gonna click through and have a look at this guy's funnel. And before I knew it, I was on your calendar. And we had a call that week, and I think we hired you like straight off the bat. We're like, yep, all right, let's go. Um, and you've been with us for over six months now. Um I want to talk a little bit about uh different channels and client acquisition methods, but also I want to pitch this at the audience here. So I want to be really conscious of the fact that our audience are agencies or freelancers, and most of them will be tuning into something like this and going, Well, you know, I just kind of get referrals and I do word of mouth and I do good work and I put my name in the footer of websites and then people refer me, which is fine until it's not, right? So, what's the problem with just working off referrals and word of mouth?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

I think for me, the biggest problem with that is it's not like a machine in your business that you can pull to generate more leads and more clients, right? Like some months you might have a really good month because you got more referrals, right, from just like your current client base, but the next month you don't necessarily know where that next client's coming from, right? You don't have that predictable, repeatable way to generate clients. Like any client-based business to grow and get more clients is really simple. You need more appointments, right? And then you need a way to convert those appointments into calls, right? If your agency is not growing it the way that you want, it's because you're not getting enough appointments, or you're getting appointments and you're not turning those appointments into sales. Uh, for most people watching this video, it's likely the first camp. You're not getting enough appointments on your calendar, right? Uh you know, right? So that's that's probably the biggest problem that I have with it is you can't just like if you want to scale your company to a certain revenue mark, you can't just put your foot on the gas pedal because you can't just summon, you know, 20 referrals out of nowhere. You know, that's that's like that's the big thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah, exactly. Uh quick shout out to Joel Warren who is in Maverick Slub. He's in the comments here watching along. And also uh Joanna Sherot is in Cincinnati. An anonymous Facebook user is from Kentucky, USA, but currently watching in Florida, enjoying the beach. Um, so referrals are uh probably the best form of lead that you can get because there's lots of trust in the relationship already, right? People already know someone who know you, who've worked with you, you've been referred, their names on the line, so there's lots of trust there. However, as you say, it's completely unpredictable. Like you literally are at the mercy of other people going, Yeah, you're pretty good, I'll refer you. Uh I know we've referred some business to you, which is good. It's helping our clients out, it's good for you, it's good for our clients. But I don't wake up every morning going, Oh damn, I gotta refer to some clients today because his business needs to grow, right? That's not my like my concern is how do we get more clients and keep them happy, right? Exactly. Um so so if if referrals and I I we I work with agencies who have grown to multiple seven figures and been doing it for 15 years and have never done any active client acquisition. They've just worked on referrals and they are now at the point where they're like, all right, they've kind of hit a ceiling, they've plateaued, and they know that the the way to get through that is to actually actively do some client acquisition. So before we dive into the sexy stuff, which is like ads and funnels, let's talk about. I had a conversation in the Facebook group. Um, I put something in there yesterday about fast Facebook leads. Like I'm putting together a little internal training here about we know we've been running some Facebook lead ad campaigns. Like, what's the fastest way to get someone to put their hand up? Uh and one of the comments was Um, I've tried this in the past and it's never worked because you know, I I went with the free web or SEO audit and no one, there was no response. So I know why that doesn't work, but like just from an outsider's point of view, tell me why offering a free web or SEO audit probably wouldn't work if you're doesn't the channel doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether it's Facebook ads or networking events. If you start a conversation with someone about doing a free web or SEO audit, why is that probably just not going to fly?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I think the main thing is it's just not a sexy offer, right? It's just like it's been around forever. It's kind of like in real estate they have like the free home audit, right? Like it's just it's just not a sexy appealing offer to people, right? When they see like a free SEO game plan or something like that, like they immediately know they're just gonna get on some call that's like a strategy session, right? And then they're just gonna be like, you know, turned into a turned into a sale. And there's no real like I think it's just an outdated offer, right? It's just not something that people find very appealing and unique right now. Like there's a million people doing it, and I think now with the landscape, it's more competitive than ever that you need to be able to stand out and have something that's unique to you, that's not out there in the marketplace. So I think that's really the big one. It's just not not that appealing, it's not that sexy.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Uh, I worked with accountants years ago, and uh there was and so accountants do a similar thing, right? Accountants do yeah, so and the accountant, the accountant's model is if you find a good accountant who has good bedside manners and is good with people and presents quite well and is quite not they don't even have to be charismatic or charming, they just have to be able to have a community, you know, communicate and have a good conversation with a business owner. If you put a client in front of them in the office or on Zoom, 80% of the time they'll convert, right? Because accountants like this recession-proof business, everyone needs an accountant, and so their whole model is you just put people in front of me, I'll talk to them and I'll convert them because I'll show them how I can make them more money by either saving the money or helping them increase revenue or profit margins. And everyone wants that. So accountants convert pretty high. The problem is they just don't get enough calls, they don't get enough appointments. And one accountant I was working with offered this free business audit, right? I'm like, dude, I don't know, but my gut tells me I don't want a business audit because I know I got shit I need to fix. I don't need someone smarter than me telling me I need to fix my stuff because it's gonna make me feel even more stupid than I already do, right? Yeah, and it's like, all right, well, we'll call it a business health check. I'm like, same thing, man. Like, I know that I've got a problem in my kidneys because I'm in a lot of pain. I don't need to go to a specialist to tell me you got a problem in your kidneys. I know, like, I just need it fixed. I need the pain to go away. So we just repositioned it as a profit roadmap, as like or profit pathway, we called it. We called it a profit pathway. Nothing changed except the name on the tin. We're like, you come and have a chat with us, we'll show you the pathway to increase profit in your business, right? That's all that changed. The guy blew up. All of a sudden he's got people sitting in front of him 24 hours a day, and he's just like shooting fish in a barrel. He didn't change anything that he actually did in the business. We just changed the name on the tin, right? Yep. Because essentially that's what a business health check or a business audit gives the business owner, is a pathway to more profit. So I'm curious in like a web or let's talk about a website. I'm curious about a website. Uh, if we offer a website audit to someone, like what what how what's a what's a sexier way that we can, I'm just we're just kind of brainstorming here. We're just gonna, I mean, by the way, Tissy doesn't know I'm gonna do this. We're just this is jazz now, ladies and gentlemen, right? We're just improvising on the spot. But if if we're going in to do like a web audit and then maybe a redesign and a redevelopment and maybe some conversion rate optimization and drive some traffic to a website, and the first thing we need to do is a web audit, how can we reposition something like a web audit to make it more appealing to the business owner?

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah, for sure. So what I've found with specifically paid traffic, right? Like in order to get B2B sales, there's really, you know, there's two things that make a B2B sale. One is like, like Troy said, when if someone's in the in the market already looking for accounting services, they know like they're already looking for that solution. Your job is just to have the best offer to just to solve that, right? So the very first thing I like to do with the like if I'm selling any kind of services, like how can I have a really strong guarantee or wrapper around that or a really cool name? That's like the very first thing that I'm kind of looking for there. And then the second thing that you need to be able to sell B2B sales, apart from like a strong promise or a bet, is you need social proof, right? You need you need because the very first thing when you have like a strong bet, strong guarantee, whatever it is, the first thing that's in someone's mind is yeah, but prove it, right? Let's let's see it, right? So I think using those two key elements right off the bat, like if you can dial in those two things, like if I'm selling accounting services, like if I because I know if someone's getting accounting services, the thing they want is they want to save money on their taxes, right? They want less of a tax bill, right? So if you're in the market for and I had an ad that's just like I guarantee I'll save you X amount right on your tax bill, right? And like come into a free profit pathway and we'll show you how to do that. And then I just backed up with a ton of case studies and results, so you knew I was legit. Like you're you're gonna book a call, you know, like you're you're gonna book a call. That's all it takes for B2B sales. It's like a strong, better promise that you can deliver on the outcome and a shit ton of social proof to back it up. That's probably how you came into my funnel, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

It's like I made a big social proof, right? So I'd sit on your ad. I didn't even have to opt in, right? You just like you just like you said some stuff. It was in that same room that we're looking at right now. Just like a 10x guaranteed ROI. Every dollar you spend will actually make 10 back guaranteed and otherwise, you don't pay. Just go check out the page and I'll I'll prove it, right? Let me back it up. So I'm like, all right, fine. I expected to have to opt in. I went and clicked and landed on the page. There's no opt-in. I'm like, okay, fair enough. And uh uh then there's a little video where you explain how it works, and then underneath there was just like 8 million testimonials of like companies that you'd work with, and a couple of them I recognized, right? I recognized Rudy. There were a couple of others I didn't recognize, but I Googled them and I'm like, all right, that looks legit. I don't reckon this guy can fake that. I'm pretty sure this guy's not faking this, right? Um, and so all I'm gonna do is book a call. I'm not offering to, I'm not giving the guy any money right now. I'm just gonna book a call to learn more, okay? But it was the it was the guarantee. I have nothing to lose, and it was the social proof. They were the two elements that got me to book a call. Because I mean, here's the thing about booking a call, right? When you're booking a call, you're not asking someone to invest money, but you're asking them to invest their time, and they do not want their time wasted. So the the guarantee and the social proof are the two really strong key elements that get them to book the call, and then on the call, your job is to convert them into is to close them into a client, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Because because I think at this point, people know when they get on a call, they're gonna be sold something. It's not like this big surprise when they get on a call. Like, you know, they they understand that. I think right now, if like if I look at a lot of our you know service-based brands that are crushing it, they follow that that pathway, you know, like they can think of a really strong, unique offer that's like has a strong guarantee or name around it that's like very benefit-driven. And then there's a ton of case studies to back it up. Like if you have that, like you will, there's no way you don't get applications and calls, like you just need those two elements because, like I was going back to that accounting example, it's you already know you need an accountant, you already know you want to save money, right? It's just like who can demonstrate that the best? And then like at a glance, like, because that's that's what they're doing, they're just doing like a BS check in their head. Like, can this guy actually deliver? And if they see a bunch of case studies, they're just like, all right, I'm just gonna book a call and see whatever the hell this guy has to do, right? Once you get them on the call, it's easy.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

That's right. And also, if you've got enough social proof, once they're on the call, it doesn't feel like a job interview, right? Because the social proof has kind of built the trust. And so you're like, you don't that you don't then have to prove yourself on the call because your social proof has done that for you. Anonymous Facebook user says, by the way, if you're watching this, click the link near this video and give StreamYard permission for us to know your name and your face so we can bring you up on the screen and we know who you are. Otherwise, I'm gonna call you anonymous Facebook user. Uh, how do you get social proof when you're just starting out? How did you do it?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great question. I actually spent almost two years getting social proof, like directly. So, what I did, I think there's like if you're just starting out, there's probably not a higher leverage activity than getting case studies and testimonials from your target market that are killing. Um, because they're just gonna pay you off in dividends more than you know right now. Um so what I actually did is I I offer I offered to work for free for brands and companies, right? Like it's really interesting. There's a lot of people who are like really against working for free. Um, but it's interesting that what like the higher up you go, like when I work with like seven, eight-figure brands, like they're they're working for free all the time with potential accounts that they want, you know, just to get their foot in the door because business is just a relationship game, right? Like if they like you, they're probably gonna pay pay you. Um, I think that's just like a piece of advice that I think people don't know. Like they're usually really not against some like in the beginning. I'm talking just in the beginning a lot of times, right? Um to get testimonials, I would work for free, right? I would try to get some sort of result or a case study right away, right? Because if you're starting out, your chances are you're not very good at what you do, right? Like because you're starting out, you can't be that good, right? So like you have to earn the right. So the best way to do that, get your foot in the door, right? Just work for free for someone, try to deliver the result for them, gain that that uh that base, right? Because once you have that base and you understand how to generate results in your niche, like it just compounds so quickly, right? So I think I had to spend like two, three years working for free, taking on accounts, understanding businesses as a whole. And then when I could do that, like the case studies that I have, like they pay us every single day in dividends, right? So that's that's that's what I would do.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

There's a couple of leverage, there's a couple of options here too. You can when I we used to do this when I had an agency, we used to do a pro bono project once a year for a local charity or a school or whatever, right? Or a cause that we believed in. But what we would do is we would use the project to get lots of press for the charity or the organization, but then we would be mentioned in the press as their digital partner, right? So that was like free advertising. We always made sure we got a case study at a video testimonial from those clients that we work with. And the other way you can position work for free is you can say, hey, this isn't gonna cost you anything to begin with. I'm gonna work for free until we get this. And then once we reach this, you pay me X. So you have nothing to lose, right? Kind of similar to performance-based, but you just start the conversation by saying, Hey, I'm gonna work for free until we get this. And then once we get this, you pay me this. Is that a fair deal? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Yeah, exactly. And if you're just starting out too, it's not like you need hundreds of testimonials, like you need like three to five, right? Even three. Even three that are pretty good. Because I'm always looking at in the marketing lens, right? Like, if you, like I said, like the moment you make a bold claim or a bold promise, the very first, like you the very first thing someone said is like, all right, prove it. I need to make sure this is real, right? So you need, I just I just think you need social proof right now if you're gonna start running ads, right? Or a marketing channel that's not organic and referral-based, like you just need that element. And like there's no higher RY than getting like the first three, like, I'm always looking at ways to get more case studies, more social proof. Like, you can't have enough.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah. So how do you how did you how do you what's your process for figuring out the message to put in front of people to you based on like how how do you figure out what they want and then craft a message to put that in front of them to get their attention? Because the internet's a noisy marketplace. Let's like running ads is super competitive, right? How do you cut through?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, that's a good question, right? It's like it is more competitive than ever. I there is no like one sexy answer towards that. Like it took me almost like a year before I cracked, cracked cold traffic, right? So I had to test a lot of stuff. But now, like if I was going back, like what I would do if I was starting from scratch is like I would try to create an offer that I'm like that is the strongest and then has the least amount of resistance, right? Meaning, like if I can create an offer that has a strong guarantee that they're gonna be satisfied with the service and then lower the barrier of entry for them to start, that's what I'm looking for. Like, if I can create a guarantee, an ROI-based guarantee and back it up with a lot of social proof, that's what I would do. Like looking back, like I used to run like certain campaigns that were just like for B2B sales specifically, I used to try like webinar funnels and I used to try um all these different types of funnels, like that were just you know, webinars, all that type of stuff. What I found that worked way better is literally just strong promise, shit ton of social proof, book a call.

unknown 20:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

That is that's what I found works the best. So in terms of just messaging, I'm always trying to figure out what is like there's an outcome that your market wants, whether it's more customers, more leads, more sales, more conversions on their site. First thing I want to figure out what that outcome is. Then the second thing I want to figure out is how can I create a strong guarantee around delivering that outcome, right? A guarantee or a promise, like a bet. And then what I want to do is just back it up with a ton of social proof on it. And like if I have those three elements, I will book calls. Like I will get leads, I will get attention. That's what I'm that's what I'm doing. Um, and a lot of startup brands that we're taking too, who are more like you know, newer service-based brands, like a lot of times before they start running ads, like I'm helping them like, hey, we need social proof, right? Like we need all three of these elements. Like, we need to figure out the markets and desire. We need to create a strong offer that's like a bet that promises that we can like get them closer to that. And we need social proof to back it up. If you have those three elements, like that's what you need.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

So how this is this is I I mean, you know, you and I are deep in this world right now. We talk about this stuff most days and in our business and how we craft offers and how we make it unique. So the whole like, you know, follow me to the end of the rainbow, and we'll discover the pot of gold, and you'll have millions of dollars in your bank account, and you'll never have to work again, and you'll have a whole team of robots and offshore VAs doing all of your work for you, and you can just go sit on the beach and sip peanut cut. And by the way, if it doesn't work, I'll give you a hundred times your money back. Okay. Right. That offer is kind of that's the ultimate offer, right? And it's it's it's becoming saturated already. And also, so how do you find something unique around that? And everyone's just gonna be offering the same thing, right? I mean, I I look at our competitors and I'm like, wow, we all look the same, right? Yeah, yeah. We all sound the same, we're all offering the same shit. How what is this what is the key for and I want to I want to talk, I'm kind of gonna tee you up here to talk about my like micro front-end offers, right? The front end offer which you spoke about at Mavcon. How do you how what's the process for finding out what the client, what the market wants? You just get on a call and ask them point blank, like, because the problem I have with this is like most people don't know what they want. You ask people what they want, most people don't know what they want. They just tell you what they think they want or what they think they're supposed to say.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, I think what it comes, yeah, two things again on it, right? So I think the good thing in B2B sales, and if you're selling services for other businesses, the thing that they primarily all want is more money, right? Like there's that's what they want. They want more leads, they want more sales, right? So that's the first thing. Like that's the outcome that they want. Now, how you make it unique is you need a unique vehicle to get them that outcome, right? Like when I went fractional chief marketing officer, there's not a whole lot of fractional chief marketing officers out there that promise more revenue and that advertise, right? So it's like understanding the outcome and then having your unique spin to it, right? Like if that's what that's what you kind of need to do, and you need to figure out how you can position right your offer in the marketplace that's that's different, that's like only to you. Like if like what Troy said with like the profit audit, right? That's like that's only to that that that tax owner, right? I mean that that tax company. They can't find that offer anywhere else, right? So that's what it comes down to. It's like it's kind of straightforward, at least for agency owners. It's like if you're selling websites, if you're selling SEO, it doesn't matter, all of them want more money. Then the next job you have to go one layer deeper and then figure out how can I spin my offer and my service is a new opportunity, something that's new that they haven't heard of that's unique to me because now you're not competing in like a hundred different SEO people. You're like, it's just it's just me. I'm the only one with it.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Yeah. So let me give you a very practical example of that. MavCon, a couple of a couple of conferences ago, or I want to say like middle of last year, we had a speaker from Search Words come in. I can't remember his name, someone will remind me. And he talked about everyone's either offering SEO or SEM, right? Everyone's offering like paid ads or SEO. What he does is he talks, he offers his clients a search solution, which is a combination of ads now to get fast results and SEO for the long game, because there's problems with both, right? Ads now is great, but it's like crack cocaine, it's gonna wear off at some point and you're gonna go hungry. SEO is the long game, it's sustainable, but it's gonna take time. The balance of both of them is what he calls a search solution. So he doesn't talk about SEO or ads in any of his marketing or any of his client because, like, listen, if you just want SEO, go see an SEO agency. If you want ads, go and see an ad agency. If you want a holistic search solution, you're in the right place. And like, he's not changing anything that he's doing in your business. He's literally just saying different words out of his mouth. That's the only thing that he's changing.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

That's what it comes down to, right? It's like the same thing we did with another SEO client. It's like that's how we framed it is instead of saying, because if you say SEO, everyone does it. Like what we did onto the ads, you said a hidden traffic source that you can leverage to start generating leads, right? Like we that was that was it. It's like, hey, we're leveraging this hidden traffic source right now to help XYZ clients get X result, right? Because it gets their attention. They're like, what the hell is this? What is this hidden traffic source really like everybody? Yeah, that's how we that's how you have to frame it.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

What is the hidden traffic source, Tissu? What is that hidden traffic source?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah, it makes it makes them click. It makes them click. Like you don't need to change your deliverable, right? Like you don't need to change your deliverable in terms of like how you're delivering the product, you just need a different name or container or round it. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Correct. That's right. I I saw an ad once and I kind of looked at it and I went and I tried to reverse engineer it, and I realized the guy was selling GMB optimizations on the back end, but he was talking about getting more traffic from kind of similar, like a hidden traffic source to get more traffic from Google without spending more money on ads. And I'm like, what's he doing? And I kind of read the copy and I'm like, I guarantee he's selling GMB optimizations. He never mentioned Google My Business on his sales page.

SPEAKER_04 26:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Like that's clever. It's intriguing. Yeah, even if go ahead. I was gonna say Dan Kennedy talks about the fact that like we're in the we're in the secret business, we're in the business of selling secrets, right? Because everyone wants to know where the secret pot of gold is. And the reality is there are no freaking secrets, man.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

Yeah, it's all common sense, right? It's like everyone knows the solution, solution towards it. But that's that's so key, right? It's like the better we always talk about this every single time is like as a business owner, the better you are at creating unique hooks and unique ways to position your offer in the marketplace, the more money you're gonna make, right? Like it's it's just one of those fundamental skill sets that you're gonna have to learn if you want to start running paid ads or a traffic source where you you get your calendar filled up with appointments coming to you. You need to get good at that skill set.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Who where did you I know you've kind of been through a similar school that I have in terms of direct response copying stuff, but where how did you discover this stuff? Like, because like because what are you like? You're like 16 years old now. Is that is that is that I'm sorry, 23, 23, man. 23. 23 years, Jesus, man. When I was 23, like um, we've had we've had this conversation before. When I was 23, I can't even remember what I was doing when I was 23, but I was nowhere near as organized as you are. Um, how did you discover this direct response kind of digital marketing world? Where were you in your life where you went, hey, this is what I want to do?

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got into it kind of early, where it's uh I, you know, I dropped out of college. I wanted to get into uh physiotherapy or chiropractic was my big goal, but I was like really stupid in school, like I didn't get any of the grades. So I dropped out of that early. And then uh from there, like when you don't have any degrees, there's not a lot of stuff that you can do, right? So like naturally I'm scrolling through Facebook and I and I see like dropshipping ads, right? I see like how to become a high-ticket closer, all that. You know, this is a classic business opportunity stuff, right? And then from there, I'm like, interesting. Like I started learning about dropshipping, I started learning about sales, right? And that's when I started learning about that stuff. And then I took um I got into drop shipping first, right? And then with dropshipping, that's when I started learning like Facebook ads, right? Because in order to like generate like sales, I had to learn Facebook ads. And that's when I like really started to learn, like, holy crap, this is like this whole other world, right? Or like and I remember when I started making my first sales on my dropshipping store, right? I was like, what the hell? This is crazy. Like I can get like people don't know my brand, like I can just run these ads and start making sales. And then, you know, I started devouring every single book out there, just the classic direct response books. I started taking mini courses. I took the Sandor certification, but that was like two, three years after. Um that was great. Um, but I took that, like I but where I learned a lot of my stuff, I think you can get like anyone can get a pretty good base knowledge of marketing is like just reading the courses and stuff like that. But where I got, I think I learned most of my skills is when I started actually like what I said in the first part of this uh podcast is when I started working for free for brands, right? Is like because everything was theory at that point, and I was like, all right, now I gotta make it work, right? Yep. And then when I started working for free for brands, I only got compensated on the additional sales I brought in.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

So when you do that, you learn pretty good what works and what doesn't, right? You start to under yeah, you start to understand, like, hey, this works, do more of that. This doesn't work, don't do that, right? And you start to understand like which clients are really easy win clients, which clients aren't easy win clients, right? Like that's what that's what it really came down to is like theory and then like doing it, like just doing it a lot, like two years of eating shit.

SPEAKER_01 29:19

Yeah, right. And you have to figure it out, especially when you're gambling with other people's money, right? If you're running ads for clients, you have to figure it out, otherwise you go hungry and you piss a lot of people off. Um I'll talk about something that you mentioned there though. Um, the you you know, you figured out which clients are an easy win and which ones aren't. When I when we applied to work with you, and we did, we applied to work with you, we applied to get on a call with you. Well, I had to answer about eight million questions in your application. Well, it wasn't that many, but it was quite a few detailed questions. And then when we got on a call, you were like, All right, take the kimono off and tell me everything that's going on in the business, right? And you were like really dug into the details. A lot of people, I I see a lot of agencies trying to hit a home run with a client who's never gonna be able to hit a home run, right? You stack the odds in your favor, at least that's what it looks like from my side of the fence, is you stack the odds in your favor by saying, we're only gonna work with clients who meet this criteria. I learned this from Christian Mickelson and Frank Kern years ago. It's like only work with the clients where you know you can pull a few levers and get them a quick win because then they'll think you're a magician and they'll basically do whatever you tell them to. Don't work with startups with no money and no, no, no traffic and no email lists because they're too hard. Like it's too hard to get them a quick win. So how do you figure out what your criteria is? And then the second part of the question is what do you do with those people who don't fit the criteria to work with you?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah, definitely. So I think especially when you run an offer like mine where it's like purely performance-based and like just around generating revenue. Like for me, like what I did is I just knew the criteria that made an easy win client. So for me, what I would like for a quick win, I knew I needed an email list that was under-leveraged or that wasn't leveraged fully. You know, they had to have, you know, they had to be generating revenue already. Like for that offer, I wanted to make sure they're making at least half a million plus in revenue, right? And like when I was working for free for clients, like that's what I knew. I was like, man, if they had an under-leveraged asset, they had some momentum already, it wasn't hard for us to make the money, right? So, like that that was that process there is when it came for criteria, it's I mean, one thing I did is I look at all the clients that we worked with historically, right? And like, what were the 20% of clients that one paid us the most amount of money and the ones that were the happiest, right? And then really quickly, when you actually analyze that data, you're gonna find, okay, they had this criteria, like both with demographics, you know, like here's here, yeah, here's how much income they were making, here's you know the qualities that they had, and then both with psychographics as well. Once you know that, like you'll you'll find like here are the 20% of clients that like make 80% of your revenue. Let's only focus on these guys, right? So that was like that was like that process. That's what we did. And then to answer your second question of like, what do you guys what do you do with the guys who don't qualify for that offer? You know, we're finding that right now as well. Cause with our agency, like I mentioned, we get like three, four hundred applications every single month, right? Like, you know, 70% of those guys don't qualify, right? I should close it to 80%, right? So what we had to do with those guys is we had to think of like a downsell or coaching offer for those guys where you just have to be very upfront with them, they're like, hey, this is a little bit of a different offer, it's more reliant on you, you have to do some of the work, but the same processes we're gonna give you a proven to work. We're doing it for seven, eight for your brands. It's just more dependent on your ability to implement these things. So for the guys, if you are gonna take clients that you're not as certain on, or where there's a little bit of a, you know, a gap, you just have to set expectations properly with them. That's what I found. Then you can still sell those guys just fine. You just have to set expectations properly. Like you can't tell those guys you're gonna be a millionaire overnight.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

You know what Hormosy, what Alex Hormosy did was he basically just took over their business back in the day. He was like, Yeah, hey dude, like, get out of the way and let me run your business for a month and it will be completely out of business, but you just need to piss off for a month and let me do my thing. And you're like moved into the gym, and like I've heard stories about him sleeping on the floor of the gym where he was working for a month because he didn't want to pay for a hotel room and he would just take over their business for a month. And because a lot of the time, if you've got the chops and you know what you're doing and you've got your your resources and your team and your processes together, and you can actually get results for the clients, a lot of the time that you won't get results is because the client is getting in the way, right? They're not giving you the content, they're not shooting the bloody video, they're not answering the questions, they're not responding to your requests. And a lot of the time, uh you know, everyone thinks, oh, that's just because they're busy. I actually think it's because they're sabotaging their own success, which is a whole other conversation. Uh, and it's not our job to play therapist, it's our job to say, hey, especially if you're performance-based, it's like you are getting in the way of me getting paid. I want to get results so that I can get paid. So, yeah, how do you how do you deal with that situation where like you start off with a client and then you realize after a couple of weeks this client's just a numpty and they're just not going to give me what I need to actually get results? Do you just fire them or how do you coach them through that?

SPEAKER_02 33:49

I think it depends, right? There's levels to it, right? Like if it's someone who's just a blatant dickhead, like you have no tolerance for that. Like you're just like hey, sorry, man, like I I fucking messed up. You should have never worked it. Like you I shouldn't know, never let you in, right? So for those guys, you can let them go like right away.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Um, right.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

For the people where it's just like they're not implementing certain things, like it's just client management 101, right? So if I notice for a few weeks things aren't getting implemented and it's moving slowly, I'll just schedule a call with them and just reset expectations, right? And let them know, like, hey, here's the objective that we set when we started working together. Here's what we're doing on our end, but we're bottlenecked because we're not getting these things in time. Like, is this something you still want to achieve? Because we're gonna give you everything you need, but like we're not we're like bottlenecked by this one thing, right? And just reset expectations with them. And a lot of times, like you'll you'll find out that either you they weren't getting enough context from you, you weren't giving them enough, or they're like, no shit, man, like I'm just really busy right now. Like, like, can we work something? And then you just have to find like a compromise for those people. But like, I just like to reset expectations and a lot of like 90% of the time, if you reset expectations, retie it back to the goal that they want, like they're like, oh yeah, dude, I understand. I messed up, I'll I'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

And they're they're goal. I find this really interesting because, and again, I don't mean to uh yeah, you're fairly new and fairly young in this world, right? And I don't mean to be an ageist here, but like I'm a dinosaur, and it took me years to get the confidence to have that conversation with clients. And I can tell you, a lot of people watching this live stream or listening to this podcast are sitting here going, how like they just feel like the idea of having that conversation with a client makes them throw up. It makes them so anxious and so nervous. Because I don't know why. Like, because I think because we feel like the client is the prize because they have the money. And the reality is we are the prize because we can actually deliver results, right? So yeah, has this is this just does this come naturally to you, or is this something that you've had to learn over the years? This like how to be because you what you are what I really like about you is you're really assertive, but super polite. Like I know exactly where I stand, I know exactly what the expectations are, but you're super awesome to work with and super friendly. And I think that's a I think that's a real skill in itself. So yeah, does that just come naturally to you, or is it something you've had to kind of hone over time?

SPEAKER_02 35:55

I think it's you know, obviously there's part of it where you have to learn it. You know, there's lessons where, you know, probably early on where I let clients go because like when I could have totally saved it by not having conversations. So part of it is actually learning that process. Um, but I think you know, communication is a little bit, I guess maybe a little bit more natural to me than others who might be a little bit more, like it just not doesn't come as easy for them. But I think the big part is just coming with that mindset that like like they want the outcome or else they wouldn't be working with you. You know what I mean? It's like a disservice if you don't bring it up, right? Like, because if you don't bring it, because here's here's the way here's the way I think about it is like if you don't bring it up with them, they're just gonna go, they're probably gonna fire you anyways. You know what I mean? Like if they're not implementing anything and they're not getting results, like you think they're just gonna stick forever and just like get built every single time. Like, no, like you have to have that conversation with them. It's just part of the process. And I think the key to that is just having that conversation with them and just in like a really friendly way with them, right? Like it's not it's it doesn't need to be something that like gives you anxiety, right? It's just like they're aware of it. It's like they're not implementing anything, they know they're dropping the ball. It's not like deep down inside they're like, I'm doing everything. Like they know, like clients know when they're not they're not delivering on their and you just need to bring it up and remind them and say, like, hey, do you still want this goal? Is this outcome still important to you? And once you get there by, and like they're good. Yeah, I had a and if they're not, then you let them go.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

I had a client hire me uh 15 years ago. Yeah, I'm not kidding, and paid a deposit for a website for a uh dog yoga company that she was starting. She's basically like driving around doing yoga for dogs who were anxious, right? And so I went and had a meeting with her at a cafe and you know, did the whole thing back when I didn't know what I was doing and uh you know, started to get some of her content. She paid the deposit. I started building the website and she disappeared off the face of the planet. 15 now she turned up about five years later and was like, Oh, hey, um, you know that website we started five years ago, I'd like to finish it. I'm like, holy shit, you're back. I'm gonna have to rebuild it from scratch because it doesn't exist anymore. But okay, sure, why not? I'll I'll honor my commitment and we'll finish it up. And um, a week later she disappeared again. And to this day, I have not heard from her 15 years. That open loop, that project is still sitting there somewhere. It's not actually, it's dead if she've ever turned up. And she never asked for her money back. It was weird. Super weird.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Yeah, that's that's the exception, right? Like, that's the exception, like at least in my like what I've found is like if you don't, if you don't address it with the client and you know the client's not progressing, getting results, like you're you're on the chopping block. You know what I mean? Like they're they're not gonna you have to like basically let them know or like reset expectations. Like the sooner the better.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Yeah, yeah. Uh so I want to talk about micro offers or like front-end offers, right? Instead of, we spoke about this at Mavcon. Instead of instead of having a conversation with someone about rebuilding their entire website, what just like give us some, and this is kind of how I came into your world, right? You were like, hey, we can just do this in the next hundred days. And then if that works, we can have a conversation about working together long term. Yeah. So what how how do you what what are some of the things that what's kind of your thought process behind because like what I what we're doing at the moment is we're helping agencies understand how to use paid discovery, not calling a paid discovery, but calling it something like a profit pathway or a digital roadmap or something like that, something sexier, and selling a small, like a low-ticket product to build massive trust, over deliver, and then get them to ascend into a larger ticker, larger ticket project. So, how do you kind of figure out, all right, I'm an e-commerce brand, I come into your world, you're like, you know what, we can just do this in the next 90 days and blow these guys away. And then there's a long-term relationship there, rather than trying to take everything over at once.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

Yeah, I think you just you just have to find, like a lot of times when you work with clients, you just have to go back and find what is value and what isn't value. Like what do your clients find really, really helpful and valuable and what don't they? And you're gonna find sometimes the things that they find really valuable are the ones that take you the least amount of time because how much time you put into something and how much value the client gets is like two completely separate things, right? Like even if you put a lot of time into it, like if it like they might not find it that valuable, right? So first thing I would do is just do an account of like, okay, what's everything I'm doing for client and what do they find valuable, what is not valuable, right? Then the next thing I want to do is like, is there like, can I find like that one or two things? Like, what are one or two big dominoes that I can do to just get someone a quick win or gain their trust, right? Just to get them in the door, right? So maybe it's like running like maybe it's running like a quick win email campaign for them if I'm running email marketing, right? If it's Facebook ad services, maybe it might be like creating them one ad, you know, like one little ad, right? If you know Rudy, for example, like his whole front end offers like a done for you ad campaign for 97 bucks, right? Which is a crazy offer, right? Towards that, like it might be just one thing that you do just to deliver that trust, right? Um, that's what I would be doing is just figuring out like what do your clients actually enjoy? What can you get results with like really fast for them, or like something it doesn't need to be like an ROI-based result, because if you're like a web developer or something like that, there might be something that you can do that you can create to them that's visual that they see a lot of value in, right? That you can create to them really quickly. It could even be like a project brief. Um, but that's what I would be doing is like figuring out like just what are those one, two things that I could do just to get their foot in the door that I can like over-deliver on. And then at that point, like you can sell them, you can sell them the world, right? Just give them that one thing, right? And then I'll sell them the whole package.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Uh and usually, so this is where I think I have this conversation all the time with really experienced agency owners who've been doing it a long time. Yeah, and they still come back to you. They get stuck, and I'm this is for everyone listening and watching, right? They get stuck going, well, the thing they need is they need a new website. I'm like, okay, they don't need a new website, right? Like I'll give you an example from the gardening world, right? So I need my lawns mode. That's what I need. I need my lawn, that's all I want. I just want my lawns mode. So I call my mate who owns a gardening business. I'm like, dude, can you send one of your boys? He's like one of my grooms, he's one of my best mates. Yeah, can you send one of your boys around every like two or three weeks and mow the lawns? Because I don't want to mow the lawns. I don't even have a lawn mower, right? I don't want to spend my weekends mowing the lawns. When my kids are a bit older, maybe I'm gonna spend the weekend in the garden teaching them how to do gardening stuff, and that's gonna be fun. But right now, I want to get out of the city on the weekend and spend time with my family. I want someone else to come and mow the lawns. So all I need and all I think I want is just come mow the lawns, right? Now, if he turned up and he went, Well, now listen here, man, you've got to re-landscape this backyard and we've got to do this down the side of the house and we've got to build a retaining wall out the front here, and it's gonna cost you $15,000 and take three months. I'm like, dude, you're an idiot. Just mow the frickin' lawns. All I want you to do is mow the lawns. Now, if he comes and mows the lawns for two or three times, so maybe he's been working with me for six weeks and he's mowed the lawns two or three times, and then he says to me, Hey, by the way, buddy, when uh when John was there the other day, he noticed this thing down the back uh yard. Uh, you got a bit of a problem down there with some mosquitoes and that vine. I think we need to kind of get rid of that vine. This is a true story, by the way. I think we need to get rid of that vine so your kids can play in the playground and not be eaten by mosquitoes. How does that sound? I'd be like, holy shit, man, thank you so much for spotting that. Can you fix it for me? And by the way, your front fence is about to fall over. The only thing holding that front fence up is a hedge. Do you want me to fix that? Thank you for spotting that. Can you please fix that too, right? Because what he's done is he's delivered on what I needed, and now I trust him enough to fix other problems. Right. And the problem I think most agency owners have is we come in and go, someone says, Well, my website's loading in 13 seconds and I'm an e-commerce brand, and that's a problem, and I'm losing money. And we come in and go, Great, let's redesign your logo. How is that relevant to what I need? So I think it takes it's I like if you can't do this as a web as an agency owner because you're too close to it. I think you should hire someone else to interview your customers and ask them, someone independent outside the business, ask them what if we could fix one thing for you in the next 30 days to help your online business, what would we fix? What would you have us do? And don't bring your baggage as a web design SEO guy for fif for the last 15 years. Don't bring that Baggage of the conversation. Just let your customer talk about what it is they want and really listen to the language that they're using because nobody wants a new website.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

That might be what they need, but it's not what they want. And so we need to start the conversation with something that they actually want, not what they need. I'll give you an example. Uh I ran some Facebook lead ads over the last couple of weeks as an experiment to lawyers showing them my teleprompter setup. And the headline was if you want to make eye contact with clients on Zoom, read this. And I got I got like 60 lawyers in a week at less than five bucks a lead. Right? Now, if I was a digital guy, I would have that conversation. I would use that to start a conversation with lawyers about how to make eye contact on Zoom. I would give them a free video to teach them how to do it, walk through exactly how to set it up, probably stick some affiliate links into the gear that they need to buy. And then I would go, hey, now that we've solved that problem for you for free, what other problem do you have? Oh, well, when I do this and my CRM's not working and my leads and I need more of this, and now we can have a conversation about what we can actually fix for them. But I started the conversation with something I knew would appeal to them.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:18

Yeah. That's huge. That's huge. Because if once you find what that is, like that's you know, like it's it's easier said than done, obviously, to find that. But like once we can once you can find like that that one thing, right? That like that to get their foot in the door, right? That they see a lot of perceived value into that you can build that relationship with, like, that's the hardest part is building that trust with them. Once you get that trust with them, like they'll give you all the money for their bigger projects, right? So yeah, I completely agree.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Correct, because because they trust you and we and we buy from people we know, like, and trust. And the fastest way to build trust with someone is to what Frank Kern does.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Show them you can help them by actually helping them and delivering results in advance before you ask for anything. Now, the trick, the trick is figuring out how to do that in a leveraged way that doesn't send you broke. Right. And so I think the fastest way to do that is just to make training, super detailed training videos that solve a very specific problem and give it to them. Hey, this is what's pro this is what's wrong with you Google My Business Listing right now. This is how to go fix it. It's gonna take you seven minutes, go fix it. Most people are gonna go, I haven't got time to do it. Can you just do it for me? And then you've got the video is an asset that you can then use for future content marketing and it's a conversation starter.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

Yeah, definitely. Because if you can think of like those mini trainings that Troy was talking about, like you could create really easy funnels where like the first the first page of the funnel gives them that free training, and then on the next page, that's when you get them onto your call or like you know, your paid discovery or make the next offer, right? You just need something to like cut through the noise and it needs to be really appealing. It needs to be like a sort of bait, right? That they see and they're like, oh my god, I need this, it needs to solve. I found the best thing is it needs to solve like an immediate need and give them relief right away. Um, ideally, it needs to be like one thing that they can use to just consume right away to get some immediate benefit from it. As long as they find that thing valuable, like they'll come back to you for more. You know, they'll they'll book the call, they'll do paid discovery, they'll upsell, all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Yeah, exactly. Uh Sharon Goodenough says uh in the comments, I love this. It's like going to the ER. You're not going to work on their weight problem when they have a broken arm, right? That's right. Like someone presents at ER, they've got a broken arm, you fix their arm, and then the GP says, oh, by the way, we might just want to have a look at your weight problem because you know you fall over again and you break your leg, you can end up in a nursing home. So let's actually get a holistic approach going on here. But when they turn up with a broken arm, it's like, we just got to fix the arm because I'm in immediate pain. So your job as a marketer is to figure out the immediate pain that your prospect is in. And the best way to do that is to ask them, get on the phone and just talk to them and ask them, right? For free. One of our Mavericks is having a lot of success at the moment doing uh basically a pick my brain call, right? So she's offering, hey, you can get on a call and pick my brain for 15 minutes, and I'll tell you everything I know about digital marketing for free, on the condition that I can pick your brain about your business and what you need for market research. And she said she did like 32 calls in 30 days. And she's like, it's been exhausting but exhilarating, and it completely changed her offer. So now she actually knows what to what to offer. Um, yeah. How the the uh last question here before we let you go. Thank you so much for your time here, too, brother. I really appreciate it. And by the way, I'm looking forward to hanging out in San Diego when we get to the city. Yeah, definitely. September, right? Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, September, it's gonna be awesome. We go for those listening, we're going to San Diego in September, of course. Wordcamp US is in San Diego on September 8, 9, 10, I think it is. Uh, or no, sorry, 9, 10, 11. And uh Mavcon, which is our conference for our Mavericks Club members, is on September 12, 13, 14 in San Diego at the beautiful Spring Hill Suites in at the Marriott in San Diego. Uh, if you are not in Mavericks Club and you want to come, then we have some tickets available to non-Mavericks to come and check it out. If you are serious about growing your agency, reach out to support at agencymavericks.com, have a conversation with the team and get the details. Um, which is a nice segue into my final question for you. You obviously you've been around a lot of mentors and a lot of people who have taught you a lot of things. How do you uh what what's kind of your criteria for choosing what to learn next and who to go study with?

SPEAKER_02 49:18

Yeah, I think for me it's it's just dependent on. I think one of the things that you know is the key if you want to grow in entrepreneurship is to discern what is the next thing that you need, what is the next immediate need. So for me, when I'm trying to figure out the next mentor, the next person to find it's what is the next thing that I need the most help with at the moment, right? Like before I used to just consume marketing, marketing courses all the time, but like there's only so much you can get with that, you know. So for me, I'm always trying to figure, okay, what is the bottleneck for me? Is it maybe it's on the sales side, then I'm looking for a sales mentor, right? Right? Like for for me, the thing I just invest in was uh Alex Charman stuff for operations, right? Because I knew that was a weak point, right? I knew that was a weak point for me was uh, you know, the actual operation side, hiring, recruiting, all that stuff, right? So that's what I'm more looking for is like I just try to take in account like what I'll do is if I notice I'm stuck, especially, like I haven't had any progress. The very first thing I'm gonna do is just do an audit of like, what am I overwhelmed with? What's the biggest thing that's preventing my growth at the moment? And then figuring out, okay, this is the number one thing I need help with. And if it's lead generation, I'm gonna get help with like, you know, find a mentor who solved that problem and just hire them, right? So that's how I've always done it. It's just what's the thing that I need the most help with right now that's taking the most amount of my time that I'm uncertain with, and then I find the person who's already achieved that and I go hire them.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

And what so talk to me about the humility there, right? Because like a lot of young people and a lot of old people are like, I don't need any freaking help, man. I'll figure this out myself. Like I'm smart enough. But you're obviously like the fastest way to learn is to have people who have done it before teach me how to do it, right? What where's that mean, where's that mindset come from?

SPEAKER_02 50:43

I just think I've never not gotten a high ROI on education from the right people. So for me, it's like a very easy trade-off, right? It's like if I can, you know, like if if if I wanted if I can go to one person who's done like 20, 30 plus years in the in a field, right, that I'm struggling with, like they can download, you know, the 80-20 of things for me like very quickly, right? I can understand that, right? So it's like that's the big thing. Like the one thing that you know that everyone's running out of is time. Right. So it's I think any way we can compress that time, it'd be crazy not to, you know, because you're also like if you don't get time help from a mentor from a bottleneck that you're stuck with, like what else is your solution? Like you're just gonna keep running into the same problem over and over again. So I just think whenever you can pay for advice from someone who's been there, done that, has a solution for what you're struggling with, like you can't not make money if you implement.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

Yeah, love it. If you implement that's right, love it. I I have a rule if we if I if uh our company spends any money on education, we have to make back, we have to be able to attribute revenue the cost of the course plus one dollar or the cost of the mentoring plus one dollar. Then we've got a return, even if it's a dollar. Uh other, I mean, usually we get way more than that, but if we don't get a return, then it's entertainment, which is fine if that's what it is. But you know, maybe we want more return than we do just entertainment. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, hey dude, thank you so much for doing this for us. This has been amazing. I could literally just jazz with you for hours, man. And I look forward to doing more of that in person. Uh super, super interesting and super helpful. Thank you so much for being a part of it. I really appreciate your time.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah, no problem. It was great. I hope everyone found it valuable. And then if uh if they have any questions, they can always reach out to us.

unknown 52:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:16

So where is the best place for people to reach out to you?

SPEAKER_02 52:19

Uh, I mean, maybe my email, or you could go to scalewithless.com or ping my email, tisu at scalewithless.com, and we can give you any resources that you need. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

Perfect. Love it. Unreal. Thank you so much, Tissu, uh, for being a part of it. Really appreciate you and uh see you in the Slack, man.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah, for sure. Take care, guys.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Unreal. Thanks, man. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is uh oh man, I could seriously could talk to that guy for a long time, and I look forward to doing more of that in person in San Diego. If you want to come to Mavcon and hang out with myself and Tissu and the other coaches and uh all the other cool people that are going to be there speaking, uh, then get in contact with our team, support at agencymavericks.com and uh get the details on what it's uh what's involved in coming there. We do have some tickets available for non-Mavericks members if you want to come and see uh inside and come and join in the fun. Also, tomorrow, Friday, it is Friday, tomorrow here in Australia, uh, wherever you are. What if it's Wednesday, then I'm talking about Thursday. If it's Tuesday, then you're possibly on another planet in another plane of existence, and then I'm talking about Wednesday. But for most of us, it will be Thursday afternoon or Friday morning. We are running a free webinar to help you get back on track to achieving your goals. I have a hunch that a bunch of you set goals at the start of the year and you are now so far away from achieving those goals that you can't find your way back and you feel like you're lost in the woods. Well, just like Hansel and Gretel, we have some breadcrumbs to get you back to the evil witch's house. Uh, we do have uh some breadcrumbs to get you out of the woods and get you back on track to achieving your goals. Tomorrow, and by the way, if you're in Australia and you've just started a new financial year and you've set a bunch of goals and we're three weeks in and you might already be thinking, holy shit, I'm massively distracted. What am I doing at App Sumo buying lifetime deals for software that is not relevant to my goals at all? And why did I just hire that person who I never thought about hiring before because they had a slippery funnel that I went down? We want to make sure that you stay on track and achieve your goals this year. So, tomorrow we're running a webinar where I'm gonna walk you through why you're probably not why you're probably off track to achieving your goals and in fact why the goals that you have set are probably unattainable and impossible to achieve. We're gonna walk you through the anatomy of a perfect goal. If you don't have goals written out with the correct anatomy, there is just no way you can achieve them. It's impossible to achieve them. So we're gonna get that sorted out. And then I'm gonna also give you my daily routine for making sure that you take the right actions every day to move towards achieving those goals. The one thing I know is that achieving goals is a result of taking the right action every single day over a period of time, not sprinting for a weekend in November just to make sure it gets done. Okay. The goal setting industry is a multi, multi, multi-billion dollar a year industry. And that is because most people suck at setting and achieving goals. Tomorrow on the webinar, it's totally free. I'm gonna walk you through our framework for setting goals that you can actually achieve. Uh, join in, as I said, it's totally free. Come and hang out, and we're gonna get you realigned so that you can make sure that your goals are achievable and that you are on track to achieve them. Oh, and also we're gonna talk about the dream team that you should build around you. I think there are three people that you should have around you that you communicate with on a regular basis to make sure that you achieve those goals. So come and hang out with us tomorrow. I think the link will be somewhere near this video. Register for the webinars. Totally free. Uh, and uh you come and hang out and we'll teach you some cool stuff. All right, thanks so much for being a part of it. Again, if you are listening to this podcast, please like and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening to. Send us a comment, support at agencymavericks.com, give us some feedback. And if you are not already in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group, please join the group. Come and join in the fun, leave some comments on the video, tell us what you like, what you don't like. Uh, play the game that James Murgatroyd plays, which is counting the drinking vessels on Troy's desk every morning. There is currently one, and it is empty because I drank my coffee, so it is time for me to go and refill it. I will see you all next week on the Agency Hour. Until then, have a great week. I'm Troy Dean. Bye for now.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour Podcast. Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocketcast, Audible, and wherever you like to listen. You can catch all of the Agency Hour episodes on our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash agencymaverks. Or you can get involved. Check out our free Digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you there.