The Agency Hour
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The Agency Hour
Experimenting with Tikety Tok
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Since I got on TikTok, we have tracked everything. So I know exactly how many leads we have added um to our email list from TikTok, which is 9,300. And that was in January, starting in kind of January, February.
SPEAKER_04What sorry? What the fuck? How many?
SPEAKER_009,300. 9,304. I have my spreadsheet here.
SPEAKER_05Leads. 9,300 leads.
SPEAKER_00Email lists. Emails, yep.
SPEAKER_05Holy shit.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And that was uh um do I know how many of those were organic versus um I'm not sure if I know that, but I know um on our our revenue that we that we got from TikTok, I know the difference between organic and and ads. So when we started to see traction, I thought, okay, I want to run TikTok ads. Uh and and we did. And and I know exactly how much we spent on TikTok ads, which by the way, are so easy to run. Um, I I just used the an organic TikTok video that did well on its own and put money behind it.
SPEAKER_03If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the Agency Hour Podcast, brought to you by Agency Mavericks.
SPEAKER_05It's so smooth. I love this tune so much. I think it's too good to be royalty-free production music. Like, I would subscribe to a streaming service to listen to music like this. In fact, I do. I subscribe to several streaming services, Spotify, Tidal, to listen to music like this most of the day. This is my jam, man. This is it's so smooth. This is Eight Points Later by the Delegates. It's royalty-free music available at artlist.io. And sometimes you just come across music and you think, why is this band not on like tour and like all over the radio? Anyway, it's good, isn't it? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the agency hour live here in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. Now, if I sound like a drag queen who's been on a bender, that's because I have two kids under the age of six who basically just throw snot at me all the time. And uh I'm currently sleeping in a spare room in the house to try and avoid that, uh, but it's still seeping its way in. So you'll have to bear with me. I'll try to uh keep it pleasant and I'll try not to lose my voice uh throughout today's show. Hey, if you're listening to this as a podcast, you should really consider coming on over to Facebook and joining the Digital Mavericks Facebook group or in in further developments, because this is where we live stream the podcast at the moment. However, I think I can announce this. We are going to start live streaming this show on our Facebook page, which is I think Facebook.com/slash agency Mavs, I believe, is the URL for our Facebook page. And we're also going to start live streaming it onto YouTube. Now that may or may not happen this season. We're going to take a couple of weeks' break in a couple of weeks because I'm traveling to the States to go to WordCamp US and to run our Mavcon event. So we are going to take a couple of weeks off. I imagine when we come back from that break is when we will start live streaming over onto YouTube and our Facebook page, which is very exciting indeed. Can't wait for that. Uh, but in the meantime, if you're listening to this, please like, subscribe, share, do all that kind of cool stuff, and uh come and join the Digital Mavericks Facebook group and be a part of the conversation. Now, today's guest, I am very, very, very excited to have our guest on today's show. We've been in touch and kind of following each other online for a couple of years now. We've connected. I think she spoke uh maybe, or no, hang on, I spoke at one of her summits, I think. That's right. And my the first time I discovered uh this person was actually on Facebook. I saw a video on Facebook of this girl wearing safety glasses about to trash her laptop, I think it was. Something about, are you super frustrated with website? Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And I watched this person blow up a laptop in a Facebook video, and I'm like, wow, that's ballsy. And then I went down the rabbit hole and this name kept coming up, and I kept seeing this thing and this uh lots of talk in our group about this other uh person who was teaching uh predominantly women how to code WordPress websites. And so, ladies and gentlemen, it is my great pleasure, of course, to introduce the one and only Julia Taylor. Come on down. Hey Julia, how are you?
SPEAKER_00Hello, thank you so much for having me. That's quite an intro.
SPEAKER_05Thanks for being here. I I know I had a bio of yours somewhere that I was supposed to read, but I generally just like to keep these things pretty organic. That is how I discovered you actually. I was like, what the hell is she about to do and why is she blowing up a laptop? And uh then this name, uh, it wasn't your name, it was, I think it was just Julia the Geek kept coming up in conversations. And uh so for those who have been living under a rock, tell us who you are, what you do, and why you're here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, thank you uh so much for having me. I'm Julia Taylor. I'm the CEO of Geek Pack. Um, but online, my kind of online presence is Julia the Geek. Um and we like uh Troy, like you said, we teach um primarily women, uh, but we do have lots of amazing guys in our program and our community um how to code. Uh and we focus primarily on WordPress, but from a um, you know, learn the the hard part of WordPress and WordPress development and and you know, really kind of getting in and and fixing the hard things and cleaning up malware and you know, all the things that that a lot of people um shy away from, that's very much where we're coming from to to really to build confidence um when it comes to WordPress, because as you well know, uh there it changes all the time, it breaks all the time, it gets you know, there's issues, there's always things changing. So when you when you know that kind of underlying code base, it just gives you a lot more confidence. So that's what we do and reference that video. I don't know if you can see over uh my head, but the that is the dynamite that I used in the video.
SPEAKER_05Wow. I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions about the video in a second, but so uh you're telling me you don't just teach because I'm being a smart ass here, but I just thought building WordPress websites was just about installing Elementor and the hello theme and then dragging and dropping onto the page. You're actually teaching people about the underlying code base so that if they get into trouble, they can actually dig in and fix things.
SPEAKER_00A hundred percent. That's exactly where where we started. Now, of course, um WordPress is going in a new direction with full site editing. And um, so we uh we completely revamped our um signature course called WP Rockstar. And the the revamp is is is teaching full site editing as it's as it's kind of evolving. Um but with the the the predecessor, the pre-um kind of course that still exists and is still worthwhile. We we do we build a WordPress website entirely from scratch. Um so you you really kind of dig into the PHP.
SPEAKER_05Um do you do I'm not gonna park here too long, but there's a couple of things I want to talk about regarding WordPress. Do you follow the famous five-minute installation process? And have you actually got that down to five minutes yet?
SPEAKER_00Um yes, I I'm a big proponent of my students um using local. So uh it's a local development environment, and that installs within seconds.
SPEAKER_05Yes, great. Yeah, it's awesome. And also, uh again, the only thing I want to say here about WordPress is the interesting story that came out, I think, earlier this week where Matt Mullenwig was asking why it took three weeks to rebuild the homepage and the download page on WordPress.org where you know I could do it in wicks in a couple of hours.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unknownAwesome.
SPEAKER_05Uh Matt, Matt, we know, buddy, we've been trying to tell you this for a long time. Welcome to our world. Uh so um now, so I just want to I just want to go back a little way. When did you discover WordPress? When did you like why did you start playing with WordPress?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I um it it kind of goes back quite a ways, and we we had a quick chat about this uh before going live. I um back in 2008, I used to work for the US intelligence community. Um, and in two that I worked for them prior to that, but in 2008, I was deployed to Afghanistan on my first deployment. And while I was there, I met my now husband. Um, and um he was with the military, and we met, we we fell in love, we did long distance for a long time, deployed more times, and um I ended up leaving my job with the US government and moved to the UK. He's British. So moved to the UK, and I um became a military wife, which I'm immensely proud of. Um, but my career progression really took a nosedive, and I went from kind of random job here to there, and we moved a lot, and it was um it was very different from what I what I had in my job with the government. And I was in one of my jobs, one of these nine to fives, and my boss um tells me to make some change on our website, and I have no idea what he's I know what he's asking for, but I have no idea how to achieve it. I have no tech background, I have no tech degree, I have a degree in Russian of all things. So none of I didn't have any of that kind of techie background, none of it. And um, I thought, okay, well, you know, I'm up for a challenge. So I Google what he's asked for, and sure enough, this line of code comes up on the on the on the page, and I think, oh, okay, well, I don't know what to do with that. But I Googled a little bit more and I figured out that I took that line of code and I put it in the back end of the website and hit refresh, and sure enough, it worked. And it was this real magical aha moment for me of, you know, I just I just spent five minutes on Google and I learned more than I ever thought I could in such a short period of time. And um, that was really the start of of the journey. And I I thought, okay, I'll learn how to code. Maybe this will end up a with a a remote job. And this was all pre-COVID. So, you know, remote jobs weren't really normal then. And I wanted a career with a business that um with I wanted to be be an employee always. I never in a million years did I think I would have my own business or be an entrepreneur. And I thought if I learn to code, if I teach myself how to code, then maybe I could work for an employer and and and be able to move with my husband's work, but keep that career progression. And um, that's really kind of where it got started. A few years later, I came across WordPress and a friend of mine was retiring from the military and he was starting his own business and he said, build my website. And I said, That's not a real thing. Like, you know, I'm I I don't know how to do that. I did, but I just didn't believe in myself. And he said, No, really, build my website. So I I dove into WordPress and I built it and he loved it. And he said, This is what you should do. You should start your own business building websites for small businesses, and and that's what I did.
SPEAKER_05Wow. Um, I remember that feeling in the I'm old, so I I remember Netscape Navigator, and I remember that feeling when I first got on the internet in the late, well, I first got on the internet in 1996. That's right. Um, and uh in the late 90s, 98, 99, I was mucking around in like chat rooms, ICQ chat rooms, and and and someone I saw in a thread somewhere that you can view the source code. If you go to Netscape Navigator, you can and you look at a website, you can view the source code that produces that website. I'm like, what? That's rubbish. That's cheating. You can't, that would be like, that's like a state secret. You can't view the source code of a website. So I remember going to a website and and sure enough, viewing the source code, and I remember feeling like the federal police were going to knock on my front door at any minute and arrest me because I'd broken into some kind of secret, you know, backroom community of these hackers. And for me, it was like, oh my god, I've got I've just been given the keys to the kingdom. And I remember that feeling of writing my first line of code and refreshing the browser back in the day when you were like on a 7.4k dial-up modem or whatever it was, and you'd go and make a cup of tea while the browser refreshed, and then you came back and your change was there live in the browser. It's like there was a there's a sense of power in having the ability to do that. So fast forward, you start building websites for for uh for friends and for clients. I then assume that you turn this into a business. At what point do you make the leap to go, I'm gonna teach other people how to do this? Because that's a fairly big leap to make. That most 99.999% of the people on the planet would just never make that leap. And I do want to park here for a second because you said that you didn't have the belief in yourself that you could build a website for someone, but now you're teaching, I don't know how many, but lots of people around the world how to do the same thing. So how did that, where did that belief come from? And how did that leap of faith happen for you?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Oh gosh, um, lots of lots of support, um, coaches, you know, all those, all those things. I've I've I've done it all, but it was it was over a very long period of time. And I um I had a lot of rocky times when I was when I was first learning to code. And when uh let's say I probably started learning in uh 2014, and then it I didn't really start my business until 1617. So in that period of time, I was I was learning as much as I could, and I was applying for for your real jobs and getting nowhere, and I would get stuck with what I was learning from, and it was all kind of free resources that I could find, and I would get really stuck and I couldn't find um the answer. And I would I would go into some of these big free Facebook groups of forums, you know, Stack Overflow and things like that, and I would ask a number of times I um would be made fun of, uh, you know, told if you don't know the answer to that, you shouldn't be doing what you're doing, and really, really kind of discouraging um not very nice people out there. And I kept with it, all albeit it did take me a long time. And it was uh in 2018 when um my husband retired from the military and we decided, you know, as as you do, and again, this was pre-COVID, but we decided to sell everything and um live in an RV for um however long and travel around the US to try and so by this time we'd moved to the US and travel around and try and figure out where we wanted to settle. So while we go on this kind of RV adventure, um, I get an Instagram account, or I I I no, I did. That was when I first started on Instagram 2018, and I'm sharing about our travels. And so many people said to me, How are you able to travel full time and and work? You know, what what do you do? Are you independently wealthy? Are your parents paying for it? You know, all this said no, I I taught myself how to code, how to how to build websites with WordPress, um, how to find clients, and I work from anywhere. And the amount of people that said, I want to know how you did it, can you teach us? That was when I thought, okay, well, maybe there's something here. So I I've never taught anything before. The only thing I knew how to do um was um was to to teach people how I wish I'd been taught. Like all the things that I didn't have, uh, um a community of nice people. That was the most important thing. And that's really where GeekPack that is. Geek Pack is is is a community um of people who are um supportive and encouraging, and there's no such thing as a silly question, and mean people are not allowed. Um so that was a real big part of it. And I just taught the way that I wish I I'd learned from from coding from the very, very beginning um to all things WordPress, to finding clients, to marketing yourself. And you know, we'll talk about TikTok in a little bit. Uh yeah, so it was it was us traveling in an RV that really started it, and it it picked up and and a lot of people loved it and they wanted to learn more. And and I've I've kind of grown the business and grown the team and um and you know that's where we are now.
SPEAKER_05So did you was it was it, did you think that teaching people would become a source of income or a or a business? Or were you just doing it to you know to stay connected in this community and to kind of give back? Or like at what point did you realize, okay, look, I'm I'm making an assumption by the way that you're no longer building websites for clients, that you're just doing the teaching thing, right? So at what point, similar journey to me, I'd last website we built for a client was in 2017, have been just full-time education and coaching since then. At what point did you did you realize, okay, this is I need to go all in on this because there's definitely a source of revenue here, but also there's a source of um meaning and uh impact that I can have and and and purpose that I can have that I'm not getting that sort of sense of fulfillment from my website clients.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was probably um I probably six months or so after I started the the teaching that I kind of thought, okay, there might be something here. And that was just free stuff to start. That's real, I started out just teaching for free. And I thought, okay, people want more. So I I said, okay, I'll I'll create a course. And and that did well. And it was, I kept working with clients for probably about a year. Um, and so kind of doing both. So trying to build this kind of education online course community and and all of that, while at the same time still doing the client stuff because it's it's a hard transition um to because you know, one was was all all the money was coming in from, and the other one is kind of building. Um, so I did I did both for about a year, and then um finally it the the course side was making enough to to not do the the client stuff anymore. Um, and so I it it was it was only when my students had positive things to say that I thought, okay, maybe this could be um more than than just a side gig part of of the client work. And I thought I loved the client work. I mean, I love digging into a website, building a website, kind of all that. But like you said, I mean, I I can't remember the last website I built. And um I still do some teaching here and there, but I have I have team members who do most of it. And um and now I I get to um do things like this and I get to, you know, form partnerships and relationships because I I want so much more for GeekPack because I want our impact and our reach, and part of our vision is is is reach and impact. Um, and that's what I get to do now, and I love it and build my team. We've got an amazing team. So um it but it it there it was a real hard kind of transition period.
SPEAKER_05I want to come back to the team in a second, and I do want to talk about tickety talk. Uh, but before I do that, uh a couple of questions I want to ask. Well, your first course, I'm curious, we're having a debate here internally at the moment about our tech stack. What your first course, what was that hosted on? Where did you publish your first course? Was it in WordPress on something like Learn Dash, or did you use a hosted solution like a teachable or a Kajabi?
SPEAKER_00I did. So um the first version was on um ClickFunnels. Um first core course was on ClickFunnels, and then um, and I had uh convert kit, and that was the email marketing that I used. Um, a couple years ago, we moved everything over to Kartra. So email um sales pages, course, all um there in Kartra.
SPEAKER_05So it's good. Kartra's a good platform. I was one of the one of the legacy, you know, bought the whole thing, all you can eat thing when they first launched, and uh it's a good platform. And at that time, who were you following? Who were you modeling? Who were you, who were you like the what courses were you buying or who was mentoring you through that? How do we set up this course and how do we do re-engagement and how do we do gamification? Who who were you kind of learning from back then?
SPEAKER_00Sure. So I started following um a woman named Julie. Well, um, she she was Julie Stoyan, um, but now she she's recently divorced and changed her name to Julie Chanel. Um, she's amazing. I started following her in 2017, and I have been in her mastermind since um the end of 2017. And I I'm very particular about um like who I follow, because if if if I try and follow too many people, um I will get lost and I'll get too much advice. And and I've I'll listen to podcasts from you know a lot of different people, but as far as like being in a in a mastermind and listening to one person, um, she's been a constant um in in my business um since the very beginning. Um I launched Geek Pack in um late 2018. So I was I was in her kind of world for about a year before I did anything with it, but um, she has been the main and within her um her mastermind, there's a lot of other entrepreneurs that I'll speak to, um, other coaches that I have access to. So I have a number of of other coaches, um, which I'm a big, big fan of, but um, she's in the constant the whole time.
SPEAKER_05Great. Um, two things I want to talk about here is your your public profile and your team. So because I think there's an interesting transition here, which will lead into TikTok as well. So you mentioned that so what what does your team look like at the moment? You mentioned that you've got other team members doing the teaching and the coaching thing these days. What is it what does your team makeup look like now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh I love my team. It's like the thing I get most excited about talking about. Yeah, um, I have right now there's uh seven of us on the team, and we're all around the world. I've got um one of my team members is in um Australia. Uh so um we've got um three in the UK, two in the UK, one in Brazil, three of us are here in the US and one in Australia. And yeah, I mean, we I probably at this point, maybe 15, 20% of my kind of tasks or my daily stuff is is kind of in the the day-to-day. But for the most part, um, it's all handled um by by different team members, and we've got different products, and I've got um a marketing, we have our own ads manager, um, I've got my own social media manager, um, our marketing kind of department is is is really, really good. We have a very good um student success um department as well. So like uh what's really important for us is that from the the uh very initial touch point that anyone has with with anything that has to do with the Geek Pack brand, whether it's one of my profiles or one of our Facebook groups, anything, that it's positive, a really, really good um touch point from the very beginning. If they email us, then it's gonna be a fantastic um kind of interaction. If they are in one of our communities, it's going to be a good interaction. So we um and then when they become a student, then that just gets even better. So we have an entire just student success team of folks who just make sure that our students are are taken care of, their their questions are answered, they're they're they're you know confident about their skills and they're they're going out and finding clients and doing all those things. So yeah, uh I've got an amazing team.
SPEAKER_05Love it. So so how do you um how did you make that pivot from, I'm asking selfishly here, how did you make that pivot from, you know, it's Julia the Geek to Geek Pack WP Rockstar? And although although you are still very much the brand, if people join a program that they don't necessarily expect that they're gonna get to come and have lunch with you and ask you lots of questions, right? Happens all the time, right? Um, sorry. Uh I don't know where I went there. Um how do you manage people's expectations? Like, oh look, I know I'm all over tickety talk and I'm blowing up computers on Facebook with dynamite sticks, but you should now go talk to Robin. She's the one that's actually gonna help you. How have you how have you managed that transition?
SPEAKER_00Time. Um, but I I think and one of the things that I love the most is when I I will go into um say GeekPack, our our prime primary Facebook group, the the private group that students could access to. And if one of my students has a win and they share, and they might say, you know, thanks very much, Julia and Shannon and Beth and Jules and Juliana, and they like list and tag everyone else that's on our team. I love that because I feel like that's such a win, because they know that it's not just me. And I guess it's taken um years of of people kind of consistently knowing that I am not the brand. The brand is the team. Um, and and and it's just taken time. Um, and I constantly talk about uh my team, I constantly kind of refer to like any any live event that I do, all of my team is on chat answering questions. So people from their like initial interaction with us, they will know that it is not just me, that it that there is a lot more to it. Um, and that's just something that um I think people are used to. When I first got started and when I first had the community, it was just me and and it was all on me. And it's just taken time to um to bring on other people and and and have other people kind of um fill in when I can't do it all the time.
SPEAKER_05And I do want to talk about your TikTok strategy in a second because what what what what I what I know is interesting is that when you make a decision to make a video and blow up a laptop and publish it on Facebook, there's a couple of things going on. One, and I know this from experience, right, is that I care so much about our clients, I care so much about our community and their success that w whenever I get self-conscious about producing content, I have to coach myself through it and get myself out of the way and remind myself it's not about you, right? You veined dinosaur, it's about your audience. So just get in front of the camera and get behind the microphone and produce the content and do the thing to help them, right? I also there's that piece, right, which I'm curious because at some point you're driving around the RV, you're getting this feedback from people, you're becoming a teacher. At some point you go, Well, I'm gonna put myself right out there and blow up a laptop on a Facebook ad, and I'm gonna do that because I care so much about helping these people and giving them a safe space to come and learn, right? But what happens then is you also become so you you become so intertwined with the brand that it then becomes harder, I in my experience anyway, it becomes harder to to uh not remove yourself from the brand, but to to educate your audience that, hey, it's not just me. You can get help from other people. And they're like, oh yeah, but you're the one on the podcast and you're the one blowing up computers on Facebook and you're the one on TikTok. So how how do you and I'm making an assumption that you are in the TikTok videos, right? Is that a fair assumption?
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_05Right, so so how do you again, and again, I'm asking for purely selfish reasons, because my team are like, we should do TikTok. And I'm like, no, we shouldn't. And I'm open to ideas, but but the further that the f the more the more content that Julia Taylor produces, the more people see you as the geek pack brand, right?
SPEAKER_06So how do you, you know, why don't you just throw your team on TikTok and go, there's TikTok, go freaking dance and do whatever you need to do.
SPEAKER_00And and we might we might try that. Um, but you're right, it is. That that was intentional. Now, um one thing uh to to know about me is I'm I'm I'm a raging introvert. Like what I'm doing right now, super uncomfortable. And and I do videos, I go live, I do, I do, I do YouTube videos, like I will do all of the things that most introverts would like bulk at and go, no, I'm not gonna do that. Because if I don't, I may not reach that person who could change their life if they learn to code, build websites, start their own business, and are financially independent. How selfish of me. And that's that's where I have to put myself in that kind of brain space of it's not about me. So I um have a very, very clear mission and I have a very, very clear vision for gig. And anytime that I kind of think, oh, I don't want to be on this TV show, or I don't want to do this podcast, or you know, oh, do I have to do another YouTube video, or do I really gotta get on TikTok? All you know, all these things. It's like, yeah, because if one person hears something that makes their life better, then it was worth it. And I just have ways of kind of coping. Like after this, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna walk my dog in the middle of nowhere for about half an hour, and that'll kind of re-energize me, and then I'll have, you know, probably pizza and beer in front of the TV with my husband. Perfect. So I have ways of kind of coping with it. But as far as the brand and and me being kind of the face of the brand, I do think that it's important when you're when you're building a brand that there is a face to go along with it. And and you know, that that's been me. I mean, it's it's my business, it's my brand, so that it makes sense that I do that. However, um, we are starting to make have discussions within my team um about how we can start to um change the face of the brand to be our community. And I don't know if you've ever seen any any pictures of the the women in our community, but we um we mail our students t-shirts um with the pack logo um here. And they take pictures and they they share them and they they love getting swag. And we want to start incorporating more of our students as the face of the brand. Because what we know with our students is when our women can see someone else who looks like them, they believe that they can do what they've done. And I know I don't look like everyone, so I I want more women who look like you know, all ages, from all over the world, all races, all everything. Um, and I want them to be the face of the brand, not me, but I we're building to that. And I I don't think it's something that happens immediately.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, totally. Our CEO is currently wearing a Geek Pack top right now while she's watching this. She's a huge fan, by the way. Emily Bryan, uh based in Christchurch, is a massive fan of yours. Someone wants to know who we're listening to. We are listening to Julia Taylor from Geek Pack, of course. This is Julia the Geek, uh is right here on the Agency Hour podcast. Uh, there's another question here um from someone. Uh yes, Angie Neal. You should cancel our lunch date. We're not having lunch. Sorry. Um, so talk to us about TikTok. You you you you decided to run an experiment with TikTok. You've run the experiment. What there we go. Look at that. That's our CEO, Emily Bryant, in right in Christchurch, right now, wearing her geek pack jumper while she's watching uh the show. By the way, for those of you who don't live in Australia, a jumper is a pullover or a sweater. I said jumper once at an event in the States, and all my American friends were like, What the hell? Are you talking about a kangaroo? What are you talking about, dude? We don't know what a jumper is. It's a pullover, a sweater. We call it a jumper here in Australia. So you go in, so first of all, let's set up the experiment, the TikTok, the TikTok experiment. What were you expecting? And why did you because listen, I'm I'll be 49 in a couple of weeks, right? And I'm not that much of a dinosaur, but I have removed my Instagram app. I've I've deleted my Instagram app because I don't give a shit anymore. I don't use it. I felt like I should use it, and I had FOMO. I realized I don't use it, I got rid of it. I don't use Twitter anymore because I don't care. I'm basically all in on Facebook, right? I just love my Facebook groups. Uh I don't I miss out on a whole bunch of stuff because I'm not in our WhatsApp groups with the kindy parents and my wife's always telling me you've got to get on WhatsApp. I'm like, no, I don't. I don't, I don't need any more information in my life, right? I've basically stopped listening to podcasts because they send me down rabbit holes. I read books, I I'm I'm obsessed with YouTube. I love YouTube videos. Why the hell do we need TikTok?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, good question. And I thought this would be fun because I feel like it's a um TikTok is if especially for business owners, um, if we're very used to Facebook and all the other platforms, um, it it's it's one of those platforms that you probably just like question, like really, you know, another. So I had been hearing about it in in my circles of other online business owners, and some people had success, some people didn't. And I thought to myself, well, you know what? I'm just gonna, I'm gonna give it a go. I'm going to, and if I do something, I'm gonna go, you know, all in on it. So I spoke to some other people who had success on TikTok and they kind of told me what they'd done. And um, and I thought, you know what, I'll give it a try. And January of this past year, I had some time and and I did, I tried it out, and um, I had a couple videos that that a handful of videos that did really well. And uh oddly enough, if you if you go and look at my my TikTok, I'm Julia the Geek on there. Um I I figured out pretty early on what people liked. And I think this is the thing that I wanted to to mention is um on TikTok, I feel like you can you can get away with just being yourself because the people who are on TikTok just want to feel something. They want to laugh, they want to be, you know, they they just want to want to feel something, but they want it to be real, raw, and genuine. Whereas on Instagram, I started on there and kind of like I I don't I've I have a love-hate relationship with Instagram. I hope they're not listening. Sorry, Mark Zuckerberg. Um, and I yeah, so I just wasn't really showing up on there because I felt like like with stories on Instagram, oh my gosh, I'm very private. I don't want to try my life, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I felt like I had to. So um on TikTok, I I felt like I could be myself, I could be genuine and raw. And if if you look at my my TikTok, um 90% of my videos, I'm in my bathrobe with no makeup on, talking about something, you know, anything, empowering women, learning to code, building websites, like like the thing about TikTok is is I was able to um not show any of my private life. I could talk about something that I get excited about. Um, and and the the response that I had was was phenomenal. And I decided pretty quickly when things, I got some traction on TikTok. I thought, okay, I want to run an experiment um and actually see, am I getting um a good ROI on on my time? Because it did it did take time. And I thought if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna put myself, me, my face kind of out there and and and spend time on something, I want to know that I'm getting a return, i.e., am I making money from this? I mean, I'm a business owner, so so that that's it. Am I getting more leads? Am I am I growing my email list? And am I making actual cash money? So that was the experiment I wanted to run. So I said to my team early on, I want to have um a um like a link tree, a faux link tree page, as as the link in bio. And we used um a cartridge page for it. So all of the buttons in that page are tracked. So we track since since I got on TikTok, we have tracked everything. So I know exactly how many leads we have added um to our email list from TikTok, which is 9,300. Um, and that was in January, starting in kind of January, February.
SPEAKER_04What sorry, what the fuck? How many?
SPEAKER_009,300, 9,304.
SPEAKER_05I have my spreadsheet here because leads, 9,300 leads.
SPEAKER_00Email lists, emails, yep.
SPEAKER_05Holy shit.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And and that was uh um do I know how many of those were organic versus um I'm not sure if I know that, but I know um on our our revenue that we that we got from TikTok, I know the difference between organic and and ads. So when we started to see traction, I thought, okay, I want to run TikTok ads. Uh, and and we did. And and I know exactly how much we spent on TikTok ads, which by the way, are so easy to run. Um, I I just used the an organic TikTok video that did well on its own and put money behind it and and sent people to our offers. And we have um all in, we spent just shy of $25,000 on TikTok ads and um have made we've we've increased our email list by over 9,000 and have made $72,000.
SPEAKER_04So in revenue.
SPEAKER_00In um uh yes, in yes, in revenue.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so almost a three times, almost a three times ROAS on ad spend.
SPEAKER_00Correct.
SPEAKER_05Wow. Now hang on organic incident. I see 9,300 leads, right? And I'm like, hang on a second, you're not done with revenue because there is so much more opportunity for revenue out of those 9,300 leads over the next six, 12, 18 months, right? Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's why we did the the experiment from um, and it this is in the last handful of weeks is when my team kind of got me all the data, and because I wanted to wait at least six months to um to know all that because our buying cycle is quite long, it's it's not super quick, and our our price point is a thousand bucks. So, you know, we're we're not asking for people to you know spend you know seven dollars or thirty-seven dollars or or whatever. It's a it's a good amount. So we we ran this over a six-month period, and I'm like, okay, I know TikTok works, and we get really, really cheap leads over on TikTok compared to to Facebook. So we've run a lot of tests, we've we've done a lot of stuff, we've got the data for it.
SPEAKER_05Do you have I'm gonna ask another question about TikTok in a second, but do you have Tripwire products or cheaper lead products that you sell, or is it just like if you want to work with us, it's a thousand bucks for the WP Rockstar course?
SPEAKER_00We do we do. We have um a couple of other um things um that are cheaper, but for the most part, it's that that's our that's the main signature product. Uh we are um starting next year, uh, we are going to be offering something else, uh a lower level um kind of membership um type uh product, um, but not until next year. So really it's always been WP Rockstar.
SPEAKER_05Here's my question about being authentic, right? I find I find it difficult, and this might surprise some people. I find it difficult to show up and be authentic unless I know what I'm gonna talk about, right? So because I get really self-conscious. If I do if if I'm just like, I'm gonna go live, I'm like, well, hang on a second, what am I saying? Like I need to know the I need to know the I need to know what I'm talking about, right? Now, the very act of planning what I'm gonna talk about for me makes the whole thing inauthentic. I'm like, well, this is now scripted. It might as well be a fucking ad. I may as well just turn on the big camera and the big lights and do it properly. Like, hang on, I'm just gonna like so in in your example, I'm just gonna like, you know, walk around in my bathrobe and tell people, you know, like I I struggle massively with this. So walk me through how do you how do you do that intentionally but authentically? I'm this is a big thing for me that I just can't reconcile in my tiny brain.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I I agree. It's not something that's that's uh easy, and I I think I I that's still something that I struggle with because I I feel like I have a lot to offer, but I I get exhausted trying to think about how I'm gonna package it and and where am I gonna go on what platform and you know, all the all the options, and I end up being overwhelmed and not doing it. And I think what I did with with TikTok is um most of the videos that I did, and I I I mean, I'm I I'm not dancing in any of them, not I'm not pointing in any of them. Um the what I would do is I would I would just find a a trending song or sound, and then I would kind of mimic over it with my own um spin on it. So it didn't, it was just a very quick like how do I get people to feel something and and to to feel empowered and want to be a part of of what I'm I'm offering. And and in our in our um that link tree, that fake link tree thing, every single button is a free resource um that they can go and check out. So we we immediately send people to as many kind of free resources as possible that we offer. Um, but you're right, it's not um I I think at least on TikTok, because that's really the only social media platform that that it is me personally. My team does all the rest. And to be fair, I haven't posted on TikTok in months. Um, I will start again soon because now I know it works, but I'm not pressuring myself to do it. Um, and it's it's just how can you take um like I I watched a TikTok once where a guy said, um, if you're struggling to come up with content, just think of like what are four things that you that your ideal avatar is struggling with? What what are those four things? Um, so for me, it's um want they want to work from home, they um want location, they want to be able to travel, they um want financial independence, they they don't want to go into a a job anymore, you know, those sorts of of things. And I just have short little videos where I mention those. And by the way, the way that you get those things is one way is to learn an in-demand tech skill like coding. And they say, I don't know, I could learn to code. And so yeah, I didn't either. But you know, if you give it a go and you love it, then it might be the ticket to everything else.
SPEAKER_05So is the what's the engagement like on TikTok? Is it is it like is it are there lots of comments and conversations happening in the comments, or is it just like reels?
SPEAKER_00Uh it's I'm I'm not well versed on. Reels, my TikToks are repurposed as reels, but I don't really know what happens on on Instagram. Um, apart from that. Um, but I do know what I one thing I do love about TikTok is if you're not friends with someone, they can't send you a private message. So um I I I I think I'm following not very many people because I don't want anyone to be able to send me private messages that I personally see. Uh so it's just it's just comments. Um, and and if someone comments, then you know I might reply, I might not. But I I give myself a lot of um leeway to um to engage if I want to, but not if I don't. Now that being said, I when I first started on TikTok, I I was dedicated to it. I was like, right, I'm gonna post three times a day. I'm gonna post two times.
SPEAKER_05Hang on, hang on, whoa, whoa, hang on. Hang you gonna post what three times a day?
SPEAKER_00But I they were all pre-recorded, all the videos I did ahead of time, but uh, and that's that's really one way to to potentially grow quickly, um, is to that, and that's what I was told, and that's what I did, and it worked. And I know a lot of other people that have as well. So it is something like if you if you want to see results from TikTok, I would recommend going in heavy at first. Um, and I know it sounds like a lot, but like the thing is it's a new platform, and you know, we got 9,300 leads, and and a lot of those we didn't pay for.
SPEAKER_06I love it, I love it.
SPEAKER_05Julia, Julia's just gone, Troy. It's okay. We got 9,300 leads. Just go in hard, brother. We got 9,300. Did I tell you about the leads we got? Just go in hard. Because you're you're sensing my skepticism. Um now again, like, oh man, I was fucking struggling with this. You the so you the all they're all just shot on the phone, right? I have made like I've spent close to $100,000 on this new facility here, and people want me to make a fucking video on my phone and put it on TikTok. I'm like, come on, man, I've got can we please put the lights on? So um you make a video on your phone, pre-record it, but then just post that from your phone to TikTok, right? So they're not lives, you know, you know, you do you go live on TikTok?
SPEAKER_00You can. Um, and I did a couple times, and it it did it help, maybe. Um, but um, yeah, it I do all of the TikTok video filming within the app, and then it just sits in my draft. There's like a draft folder.
SPEAKER_01Um, brilliant. Okay.
SPEAKER_00It it and I get it. I mean, I I was very reluctant to get on TikTok, it's learning something new. But when I started to see results quickly, I mean, this was all I mean, last year it was tough with Facebook ads, it was very expensive, it was not working, and last year was hard. So I I went into TikTok thinking to myself, can I use TikTok as another place for lead gen? Because I was paying so much money for leads, and you know, I'm looking down the barrel of is this the the future? I I how am I gonna grow if I if this is what's what's happening? And and when I got on TikTok and things started to work and and we started to get organic, like I didn't pay a penny for these leads, which by the way, if you run ads on TikTok, we get about $1.50, $2 per lead on leads are cheaper over there if you're if you're if you if you run ads, it's super easy to run ads. Um, but when I started to see leads come in um from TikTok, I I it it was such a weight off my shoulders of oh lead gin organically is still a thing.
SPEAKER_05Right. Well it's like it's like it's like going to the gym, right? It's like I love going to the gym. I've been going to the gym for years, and it's I do it now for my mental health more than anything. Um but when you're first starting out, it's like who wants to go to the gym? It's boring, it's hard work, it hurts. Uh but and it and if it's gonna take three months to feel or see a result, I'm just not gonna stick at something for three months without feedback, right? I need feedback to know that it's working. So if you get if you you know, if I I can tell you if I with if I put a couple of videos up on TikTok and I could see that we were getting some leads, I would be all in. It would be like a drug for me, and I would become like the TikTok king, and all of a sudden I'd have a course on how to nail TikTok, right? So I would go all in. I'm good at going down rabbit holes. I just haven't I haven't spent any time on TikTok at all. I've no I don't even have the TikTok app on my phone. I don't even know how to spell it, right? It it looks like a spelling mistake to me. But now that you've said that you've got 9,300 leads since January, that's insane and might just be the thing that prompts me. Because if you can see that it's making a difference and that there's something that you can measure, then it's worth, you know, it's and you're right, Facebook leads have become really expensive. It what's interesting now is that I think Facebook ads now are actually in a really good place for us anyway. That leads costs have come down and we're doing pretty well. Um so what what what's what happens when someone follows you on TikTok, they like what you're saying, they go to your cartra page, they opt in. What's the experience then for them? How do you get them to buy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so the the big thing that we um promote on um on TikTok. Now, like I said, we've got that that uh Linkedry page with all the buttons. Um, and if if you were to see any of my videos, especially the the big ones that have done well, it I'm I'm saying in the video or I say in the comments, click the the the hit click the second button in the link in my bio. So it just happened that the the second button in the link of the link in my bio um takes people to a free coding challenge that we run. And we run it live, uh, which people love, and we're we're doing one in a couple weeks. Um, but that is so all of the videos that have done well are about me teaching women to code and and what comes from them learning how to code. And I had you can actually create TikTok videos based on a comment that someone has. So I had a video that went really well, and then someone asked the question, and she says, I'm I'm 48, I'm too old for this. You know, how in the world could I learn how to code? And I created a TikTok video replying to her comment, and it's one of the most viewed videos that I have. And I'm just kind of saying, No, you're not too old. And you we have this, we have this live free coding challenge where we start at the very beginning with Inspect Tools, the the the really cool, like, you know, see the back end of a website. Um, and and we we just teach the very basics. It's 30 minutes, it's you know, four days, and then and that's where we get a lot of people engaged. They join our um free big Facebook group um through joining that um coding challenge. And then we we do a soft kind of pitch at the end um for different products. We're kind of testing different things. Um, and then a couple times a year we have big, big launches. Like last year, you joined me for Geekapalooza. Um and then, and so we we and I email my list every week. We have we have many launches that come up here and there. So we we just constantly engage between our email list, our paid ads, our organic stuff, and and then we have live events multiple times throughout the year that are that are all free um with some sort of thing at the end. And and that's that's where we we get people and some people join immediately, some people it takes them two years. They've been following for two years and then they join. So we we have that whole gamut.
SPEAKER_05We had a client join um Mavericks Club, which is our mastermind uh last week, Jeremy from the States. He he spoke to Damien in our sales team and he said, I'm looking at a notebook here from a call I had with Troy five years ago, and I wrote down all the challenges and all the problems I'm having in my agency five years ago, and I'm looking at that that notebook, and all those challenges are still there, nothing's changed. And Damien said, Well, come on, brother, it's time to make a change. And so he joined our mastermind five year sales cycle. He'd bought a bunch of courses from us in the past. Uh yeah, so sometimes it does take uh when the teacher is ready, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear kind of thing. Um, what's the demographic over at TikTok? I'm making an assumption that it's like my nephew who's like 23, and he's not, I don't want him as a client, right? He's got a worse attention span than me. So what what is the demographic over at TikTok?
SPEAKER_00It is primarily a younger generation. Uh, it is primarily, I'd say, teen um teen ages, I I I assume. However, um there's a lot of people on TikTok, and and a lot of our I mean our ideal um audience is um women adult learners, so um women kind of 30, 35 plus, um, and and they're on TikTok. Um they're absolutely we had someone post in um Geek Pack the other day, and she said the the best product she ever bought from TikTok was WP Rockstar. So they are there. I mean, they're they're there definitely. I we do know that most of our audience is on Facebook. So we we are still doing a lot of most of what we do is on Facebook, but there are people who who would be interested in this sort of stuff on on TikTok. And like I said, people are on TikTok because they just want to, they want to laugh, they want to feel something, they want to connect with someone, they don't want the the flowery, the perfect, you know, the the filters or anything like that. I don't use any of those. And it's really um, I mean, the amount of times people ask me about my my bathrobe, it's kind of taken on a life of its own. Um, and I I only was on TikTok from January until May. I have not posted since May because I've been busy and I just didn't want to. But we're still running ads and it's still kind of working. Um so it it's just I really liked it as a platform because I could be raw and genuine and um goofy and vulnerable without feeling like I had to show any of my private life.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because the you know, that's one thing that has definitely changed for me since I had kids is I noticed that basically the minute I had Oscar was like, I actually don't want to post. I I well I've never posted a picture of our kids on any social media platform ever. In fact, my cousin did once, and I kind of asked him to take it down. I don't want my kids' faces on social media. And that's just a preference because I know how the algorithm works, right? And um I don't want them profiled. And so uh I and but also I stopped, I stopped posting so much stuff about I was going live all the time on Facebook before I had kids, and I was, you know, being really vulnerable about my personal life, my pri I stopped doing that when and it was weird. It was like probably six months in, I was like, oh wow, why have I stopped? I'm not doing it's because I don't know why having kids changed that for me, right? But I don't think it felt a little contrived for me. It's like I'm just gonna post stuff about my personal life so that you connect with me and you know that I'm an authentic human being, and then you come and buy my stuff. And it felt really it felt really contrived, and I I made a decision that I didn't really want to do that anymore. And so it's good to hear you say that uh you can and I'm not look, I'm not convinced. The 9300 leads is a big carrot, I gotta tell you, that's a big carrot for a dollar fifty a lead. That's you do that every day of the week. Um, but uh yeah, I'm I I have been inspired to uh at least check it out as a platform. Um, what are you most excited about over the next 90 days with uh with Geek Pag, apart from the live coding challenge, of course?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so um we have an event coming up in October called Geek Fest. Um I'm excited about that. I know very little. Um I've given like full reign over to my team for for planning and and all of that. So I'll just show up for the lives and kind of run it. But we've got that coming up in October. Um, but the next 90 days, I we've got a new product that's going to be coming out um in the new year. And I've I've been in um negotiations with a pretty big uh company in the in the coding world to partner with them. Um and I literally just found out a few hours ago that's been um approved by their you know legal team and finance and all that. So there's some really exciting stuff on the horizon um with uh with with what's coming in in the new year, but all the kind of planning and and things that I have to do to make that work. So I I feel very much like I'm adulting um when it comes to um to the the strategy and the vision of the business and where we're going.
SPEAKER_05Awesome, fantastic. Who does your PR, by the way? Do you do it yourself or do you have someone manage because you're on like you're on bloody TV shows and radio shows and you're everywhere?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I do have someone. Um her name's Larissa Banting. She's amazing. Um, we worked together for a while and she got me a lot of great things. We're we're we've kind of paused for now just because I don't have the the the capacity really to um to do another thing, but I will pick that back up again probably in the next couple months. Um, but yeah, yeah. So I I the the TV shows I've been on, uh the news um outlets, um a lot of podcasts I've done, um newspapers, magazines, a lot of that was was her getting me in front of the the right people.
SPEAKER_05And I'm guessing the message there is a is is is almost a B2C message. It's kind of like a financial independence, work remote, location independence by learning how to code, right? Yeah, it's good. I like it. Because that's a mass, that's a mass appeal offer, right? That's a mass appeal message. It's like, you know, that that whole story is almost like you're the reluctant hero that you figured something out, you've got independence, location, and financial independence for women that's huge. And you're now spreading the message reluctantly. Everyone's been asking, so here it is. I'm gonna tell you all how I did it. It's great, I love it, it's a good story. Um Hey, this has been super interesting, and I'd love to have you back at some point again in the future if you're up for it to talk more about stuff because we're in a very similar pocket here and doing some really similar stuff, and I love learning from people who are on a similar journey, and also I think you're just fun to hang out with. So um, I'd love to have you back sometime. That'd be cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that'd be awesome. But do you you said about going to um WordCamp US? I'm not sure if I'm gonna go, but if I do decide to go, I will let you know.
SPEAKER_05Dude, totally. And we're we are we're at WordCamp US, and then the next three days the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, we're in San Diego for our Mavcon event for our Mavericks. So, yeah, definitely if you're if you're anywhere near San Diego September you know 9 through 15, come and hang out. We'll we'll we'll grab lunch or something if you if you're around. Otherwise, I'm definitely going to come back to the States again next year. Uh, so we'll definitely cross paths at some point.
SPEAKER_00Excellent. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_05Where can people get in touch? Where can people come and hang out and get more of Julia the Geek?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so easiest place is um our website, geekpack.com. Um, there's lots of information on there about all the free resources and things that we have. Um, and I guess if you do want to check out me in my in my bathrobe on uh on TikTok, I'm Julia the Geek on TikTok.
SPEAKER_06Love it. I'm coming to stalk you on TikTok.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_06You'll be the only person I follow on TikTok.
SPEAKER_05Uh love it. Awesome. Hey Julia, thank you so much for being a part of the agency. This has been a lot of fun. And I wish you all the best for the future growth of GeekPack and looking forward to seeing what you do next.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, Troy. It was a real pleasure.
SPEAKER_05All right, take care. All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is Julia Taylor from GeekPack, otherwise known as Julia the Geek. Go check her out. There we go, geekpack.com in the comments there. Uh, go check her out on TikTok and get around it. And if you know anyone who is looking to learn how to code so that they can, you know, have a remote location independent job and have some financial independence, then go and check out what Julia is doing over at geekpack.com. Uh, we're big fans and we'll definitely have her back for another show at some point in the future. Uh, please do the usual stuff. Subscribe, follow us on social, Spotify, uh, wherever you get your podcasts uh um and join the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. Also, come and check us out on YouTube. We just clocked up 10,000 subscribers on YouTube. We're on a journey over there to ramp that up. Uh, we're not on TikTok yet. We're not on TikTok yet. I'm not making any promises. I'm not making any promises. Uh, but we might have a little experiment over there. I'm not sure. Um, and also if you are interested in uh if you're interested in growing your agency, then check out agencymavericks.com slash Mavcon. We are going to be in San Diego for our live event from September 12 through 14, which is coming up in about four weeks. I can't believe it. It's blowing my mind. I can't believe it's happening so quickly. All right, thanks for being a part of it. My name's Troy Dean. I'm your host here at the agency hour. As I said, we're gonna do this again uh for a few weeks and then we'll take a couple of weeks off while I'm traveling. I think. I'm not sure. I haven't consulted with the team yet, but we will let you know, and then we'll be back. And we will be live streaming this in the coming in the very near future. We will be live streaming this show on our Facebook page and our YouTube channel. So uh keep your eyes out for that. And we're also gonna move platforms, I believe we're gonna move platforms to Riverside FM so that we can get high quality audio production rather than relying on compressed MP3s, which is what we get out of StreamYard. Uh, we love StreamYard, but I don't think it's great for podcasts, and we want to make our podcast the best it can possibly be, and we want to make it the best possible live show that we can and the best possible podcast that we can. So we're probably gonna move to Riverside FM, and we are most likely gonna be broadcasting this live on our Facebook page and our YouTube channel just because we want to get in front of more people. So we love the people in the group here, but we do, and we will still stream it into the group or promote it and put the links in the group, but we want to get in front of more people, and so we want to take it out of the private group and make it more public. All right, thanks for being a part of it. And uh apparently Johnny Flash is gonna host an episode while I'm away, so that'll be fun. And uh look forward to seeing you and speaking with you again next week on the Agency Hour. Until then, have a great week. Bye for now.
SPEAKER_03Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour Podcast. Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocketcast, Audible, and wherever you like to listen. You can catch all of the Agency Hour episodes on our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash agencymaverks. Or you can get involved. Check out our free Digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you there.