The Agency Hour
The Agency Hour is for digital agency owners like you who want to start, grow and scale their businesses. It’s like hanging out with friends while getting a masterclass in how to tackle the most significant obstacles you’re facing as an entrepreneur.
The Agency Hour
Your business game plan
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What you're feeling here dictates what comes out here, right? So it's it's super important that you are coming into that conversation. Let's call it that, first of all, not a sales call, right? It's a conversation with the intent of I'm here to serve this individual.
SPEAKER_00If you have a vision for the agency you want to build, then we want to help you build it. Welcome to the Agency Hour Podcast, brought to you by Agency Mavericks.
SPEAKER_01Hey, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Agency Hour live here in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. I uh might just flag that this could be perhaps the second to last episode of the agency hour that we do live here in the Facebook group. It's okay, calm down. We're not going anywhere. Uh we are probably, sorry, bad dad joke there. We are probably going to start live streaming these onto our Facebook page and onto YouTube uh just for fun. So um, however, right now we're in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. So if you're listening to this as a podcast, you should really come and check out the Digital Mavericks Facebook group, by the way. It's an amazing group of digital marketers, freelancers, and agency owners all over the world. There's about 13,000 people in there. And we live stream this show into the group. It's a video podcast. We've got an amazing set. We've spent an enormous amount of money on the lights and the cameras and the microphones and the set, and we're having a lot of fun. And also, it's there's a great conversation in the group. People come in and ask each other lots of questions and a whole bunch of digital marketers and freelancers and agency owners helping each other in a community. So and it's totally free, so come and check it out. All right. Uh, if you are listening to this as a podcast, please like, subscribe, share, do all that kind of usual stuff on the socials to help us get in front of more people so that we can help more people. And on today's show, by the way, if you are watching this, uh if you're not watching this, come and check it out because I have a new little microphone on the set here. This is actually a trophy that my parents gave me when I started, I don't know, doing voiceovers or some bloody thing, I can't remember. Anyway, mum sends me a trophy every week, just about. They own a trophy business, and she sends me a trophy just about every week for something. You know, well done. You got out of bed and went to work. Have a trophy. Uh so this is one of them, a little uh souvenir. And I thought because a lot of talk show hosts have those fake microphones on the desk, that I'd bring in the cheapest little fake microphone I could. There we go. Uh on today's show on today's show, uh, we have one of our team members is joining us on today's show, Damien. He's from California. He is our agency growth consultant, otherwise known as our high-ticket closer. Uh, he's the guy that people talk to in order to join one of our coaching programs. He thinks he's coming on to share his knowledge on the show. We're actually doing a live performance review of his performance over the last six months, live here on the show. So that's going to be super fun because he doesn't know that. So can't wait to see his reaction to that. Uh no, of course I'm kidding. Um We are very pleased to have with us on the show here today uh the head of our sales team, Damien Joseph, all the way from California. Come on down, Damien.
SPEAKER_02Let's go. Let's go. What an intro, man. And I you had me, you had me reeling there. My 90-day review or whatever review is up. I better check my Ps and Q's on this call.
SPEAKER_01I don't even, I don't even do the reviews anymore. It would be Emily. So I don't even know how they work. I like, I mean, I think I'm due for a review, frankly. And if I was Emily, I'd be telling me, listen, buddy, you're not performing. Um, now, for those that don't know, who the hell are you and what are you doing here?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, good question. Who the hell am I? What is art? I'm still trying to figure it out. Troy is the truth. I'm still trying to figure it out. Now, uh, my name's Damien Joseph, everyone. Uh, I head up the agency growth team here at Agency Mavericks. Uh, been doing this for well since the top of the year now, and it's been a blast. It's it's I I love it. It's my sweet spot. Uh Troy talks often about finding our sweet spot, and this is absolutely it. I love hopping on these calls with you guys and just just exploring. Uh, if if you've been on a sales call with me, right? Uh, since I'm the high-ticket closer, as so as Troy so aptly uh introduced me, you'll know that it's super casual. It's very collaborative and explorative. Um, and yeah, it's it's it's just a good time. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Uh someone's saying I'm a lot louder than Damien. Well, that's just how we are in real life. So no questions there. Um uh so I don't know, Max, you can pull Damien's mic up at all. I'm not sure. But uh anyway, um Damien, before now let's just talk about uh the let's just talk about how the fact that you didn't you almost didn't start with us. Because do you remember what happened when we didn't hire you and then we came back with our tail between our legs and said Can you come play with us, please? We miss you.
SPEAKER_02Oh man, yeah, those are interesting times, man. Really interesting times. Yeah. You know, as fate would have it, everything I I'm a huge believer in everything has its rhyme and its reason and works out for the best, for the greater good, right? Um, I I don't know. Let me add well let me turn it back on you, bro. Like what happened?
SPEAKER_01Well, so so we I remember our part of our recruitment process is that you uh you go through about 800 interviews with our team before we finally make you an offer. And Damien had been through 799 of those interviews, and Pete was like, I really like this guy. We should hire this guy, we should definitely bring him on. And I'm like, all right, cool, man. So we had a call with him, and we were, and we got off the Emily and I got off the call and we were like, Yeah, we really like Damien, and it was pretty much a done deal. And then someone else who will remain nameless popped up on our radar and just on paper looked incredible, just had so much experience, and we made the mistake of, and you know, it's an it's an it's an easy mistake to make. We looked at the Regime's on paper and went, well, you know, this guy, this other guy's just got way more experience. And uh, so we hired this other guy who uh was you know made all the right noises, but two weeks in, uh before it actually made any sales calls, just sent me an email going, Hey Troy, you've built a great team here. This is great, thanks for the opportunity, but I'm out. And I was like, What? What the fuck happened? Like, what do you mean you're out? Like, what what what did I miss a meeting? And I'm not gonna go into too much too much detail, but Pete, let's just say this Pete friended this guy on Facebook, and I think we might have been a little bit too woo-woo for this other candidate. Uh I don't think there was, I think there was a misalignment of values, right? Pete friended this other guy on Facebook and came back to me, went, Oh, I saw some stuff on Facebook, and it doesn't surprise me that he's disappeared because we are just we're just diametrically opposed in terms of our kind of values and and you know what we what we value and our kind of uh philosophy on life. And I'm like, all right, cool, no problem. So then we came back to Damien. I said to Emily, well, shit, I hope Damien's still available. And I remember we had quite a sheepish phone call where Emily and I said, Well, you know, sorry, we got it wrong. It's kind of like going back to the ex saying I shouldn't have broke up. I went and tried something else, I didn't like it. Turns out I really like you. Can we get back together? Nazi, nazi boy, Nazi Nazi.
SPEAKER_02I remember literally telling you at the end of the call when I felt like uh it was safe to say something like this. I was like, Troy, I forgive you, brother.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember. I remember, in fact, I remember you you getting on the call, and one of the first things you were like, Well, you know, so here you are with your tail between your legs, come back to to you know, grovel. And I'm like, Yep, that's exactly why we're here, dude.
SPEAKER_02Please, please. Hey, if anything, it's just it's that chip on the shoulder, and let's go. Let's let me let's let's rock and roll. So yeah, and it's it works out wonderfully.
SPEAKER_01So listen, salespeople are salespeople are the hardest people to recruit and the hardest people to keep. And we're gonna unpack a little bit of this in a minute. Um, I think it's because uh we are, and I you know have had a lot of experience in sales and I get it, and it is a it's a rush when you onboard someone into the right solution and you know that they are you are setting them up for success, right? Or you sell someone the right product, or you see that big aha moment when they get into the right car or whatever it is, whatever you're selling. There is a rush, and it salespeople are very emotional. We're very primitive almost, you know. We're very emotional. We go, we love, we love the chase, we love the payoff. Um, and it salespeople are very hard to find and keep. And we had been through before you, we had a sales agency. We'd hired and fired and had people leave, you know, three, four, five salespeople really. And I someone had told me, you know, it's gonna take a lot longer than you think to find the right mix of people. Um and the other thing that really appealed to us about you is that you had agency experience, which this other candidate didn't. So one of the things, one of the things I want to unpack on today's call, which I don't even know if we're if we mentioned this in the preamble, but I do want to talk about at some point, and maybe now's a good time, is the mindset around sales, because a lot I know like a lot of our audience are just like, well, I just work off referrals and I don't need to do sales. And I think that's because people feel a bit icky about doing sales, right? So what is the mindset around, and I'm kind of teeing you up here to talk. Uh, what is the mindset around doing sales where it doesn't feel icky and it feels like you're genuinely just helping someone find the right pathway forward?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, that that's it. Perspective and your approach, right? What you're feeling here dictates what comes out here, right? So it's it's super important that you are coming into that conversation. Let's call it that, first of all, not a sales call, right? It's a conversation with the intent of I'm here to serve this individual. I'm here, let's start there. It's a servitude, right? It's not a sale, it's not a close, it's not an acquisition of money, right? Uh, I'm here to serve this individual. And that everything else that sets you up, that sets the foundation for what for the questioning that is to follow, right? And and it's it should be exactly that. Questions. How can I how can we figure out some of the problems that you're facing and the impact that those problems are having on your business? But moreover, what's the root cause, the true root cause of that of that issue that you're facing? Not, I mean, we have these surface level uh symptoms that we think are the causes, but let's really dig here. Let's have a conversation about identifying the true root cause of your issues. And what I'm gonna do for you is I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna just shut up and listen, first of all. And at the end of this call, hopefully we'll I can put together a more specific solution for the root causes of some of those issues that you're facing. So it's just it's that approach, entering into that conversation with the heart of servitude, really.
SPEAKER_01I just want to get this out of the way right off the bat, right? There are there are uh people who you will talk to who we can't help for a number of reasons, right? Uh so two parts to this question. First of all, what do you do on a call where let's just let's just name the elephant in the room, right? You are in a sales function, you get rewarded, you get paid well and rewarded with you know extras if you if we sell people into a program and yet you're in front of someone who you know that we can't help. How do what do you do with that person to that's the right thing by us and the right thing by them? Yeah, yeah, great question, great question.
SPEAKER_02So you it, I mean, that's you have to have this, there's like that, you know, there's the uh what is it, the little devil on the shoulder on this side, and then the little angel on the shoulder on this side, and they're just having this war of conversation, right? And it's what you here again, if you enter into that conversation with that heart of servitude, like I want to help this person, whether they are a fit or not, if the conversation tends to sway in that direction, right? Even if in the back of my mind I know they are not quite ready yet, we'll just put it that way, right? Um they're still walking away with a lot of gold nuggets, a lot of clear next tangible, not woohoo stuff. We talk, I think woohoo's part of this conversation somehow. Uh, tangible next steps that they can take. And I'll give them that, that that tangible next step. Like, let's let's do this first and let's let's touch base in you know in a couple months and let me know where. And matter of fact, here's my email. Let me know how you're progressing on that. Matter of fact, one of our recent uh sales accelerators members, um I don't know if I should say well, I'll say his name. I'm gonna celebrate Riaz here. Riaz, where are you at, brother? If you're out here, if you're out there, shout out to Riaz. So Riaz was a perfect example of this, Troy, where we had we jumped on that first call and it was he's in Malaysia, so the exchange rate's tough, right? Um there he was not quite at the financial resources that he wanted to be at. So he was like, Damien, I'm not quite there, but I I see the value here. I see everything that you that you showed me. I agree, I see it. I want to be a part of this. I said, okay, cool. Well, let's let's lay out a plan. What needs to be that first next, that real tangible first action step, right? We refer to it as feedback loops, like let's take an action, galvanized action step, let it run its cycle, and then respond back with the feedback. And we'll inform, we'll use that data to inform the next feedback loop. So we're making data-driven decisions throughout this journey here. But we laid it out right there on the call. And sure enough, I got an email from Riaz about three 30 days later saying, Damien, I did it. I'm ready to go. I I followed through, I executed on the plan, and he's he's a happy sales accelerator member. He's he's part of the family now.
SPEAKER_01I had no idea, by the way, that you'd had that history with him. He turned up on the call last week, I think, for the first time, and I saw a new name and I'm like, oh hey, Riaz, what's going on, dude? And uh I had no idea that that you'd been in contact with him for that long and had that conversation. Um, but also there are some people who financially are ready to go, but culturally are not a good fit. And when I mean culturally, I don't mean because you know they live in a yurt. I mean because not that there's anything wrong with living in a yurt. In fact, if you want to live in a yurt and come and hang out with us, that's totally fine. I fantasize about living in a yurt. Uh oh dear. Um, but they're just not the mindset is they're not coachable, right? They're just they're not gonna be a good fit for the community. And you have turned people away who you're like, and you've I remember you pinged me in Slack a few times, and you're like, I'm sorry, dude. Like, you know, I'm not gonna do this because it's not right, he's not right, she's not right for the community, he's not right for the community, this is not gonna be a good fit, this is gonna be problems down the track, so I'm making a call. Uh, how that must be awkward, it must be difficult for you to do, but also potentially an awkward conversation for the person because they're like, Well, you guys spend all this time marketing yourselves as a business coaching company for agencies, and here I am, and I'm ready to pay, and you're telling me to piss off. What like that's a bit rude. How do you handle that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, man. And and I'm ref I'm reflecting back that exact scenario uh happened uh a couple months back now. But yeah, it's what it is is I put my I take I'm taking the time to like put myself in in our community's shoes, right? Like literally, when we say that word community, it is a wonderful, vibrant community. And being on the other side, it's almost like because you you care so much about that community, almost like as we take I put on my dad hat, right? I'm a husband and father of two, and it's I feel like I'm protecting my kiddos, I'm protecting the family here. And if I see a potential threat, I guess maybe, you know, if for lack of a better term, um, that I feel would would be disruptive or harm our community in any time in any sh fashion. There's many uh outcomes that could possibly be, right? Um, I just much as I would love to bring them on board and collect the commission trolley, uh I know in the long term it's for the greater good. Um, just like what we started this conversation out, right? Like sometimes things are a little uncomfortable at first, but in the long term, it works out for the best.
SPEAKER_01So I want to I wanna I want to get some advice from you because one of the things, and I'm just purely selfishly getting some advice here, right? I I think I've learned over the years to be pretty comfortable in silence and pretty comfortable in in knowing that the person I'm talking with feels uncomfortable. And so full transparency. Early on, you know, in my 20s, I was in relationships, and one of the things I could not I could not cope if my girlfriend was in any sort of distress or discomfort or, you know, anxiety, whatever. I'd say I would do whatever I could to make them happy most of the time. And what I and and then what I would do is I would sacrifice my own needs in order to keep everyone else happy, and I would build resentment, and then it would pop and I'd you know be a dick, carry on like an idiot because I the I'd have to let off the steam because I'd kept everything in. I've learned over the years that that's not good for anyone, and I've learned through lots of therapy and lots of practice to be able to sit with someone who is potentially feeling uncomfortable and just hold that space for them and it not impact me at all. And and it not, I I don't have to do anything. I can just sit with them and listen and be with them, and they can be in all sorts of distress. And I it's not my job to comfort them or to soothe them or any of that, right? And when you're having a conversation with someone about their business and their future plans and their dreams and their aspirations, and the fact that things are not going as well as they expected, and that they need help, it's a very humbling conversation for them. And sometimes people do feel quite uncomfortable on the other end of the call, right? How have you learned over the years to be able to just sit with that and not try to overcompensate or not try to, you know, uh not not not try to soothe them or just kind of let them be?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that that is a a very important question. I want I want to highlight this, like everybody tune in, like turn up the volume here, and then not for my my answer, uh don't turn not about this, but let's just collectively here take a moment, right, to to really think about this because this opens up something very uh a much more leveraged train of thought, so to speak, right? Which is we find the truth in balance, right? We don't we don't want to get too high, whether it's a win and we get high and celebratory and over overly optimistic or overly, right? Um, or don't let the shortcomings take you too far deep and down, right? Um it's it's and that's the natural inclination uh as a human. We just it's so easy for us to feel weight and then tend to go down. But but really finding that that balanced place um is where the truth lives, right? Truth lives in balance. So it's it's really important when in these conversations that I we remain balanced. I remain that balanced, like immovable oak tree comes to comes to mind, right? Like I just picture this giant oak tree that's just immovable and it just does not sway no matter how hard the wind is blowing, no matter what the situation is around it, it's steady, it's calm, it's balanced. Right. And I think the the energy in the conversation, it it opens, it becomes a clearer conversation, and it's we we really are able to galvanize and distill here again why we're on that conversation, which is to uncover the true root causes of what is going on in the business.
SPEAKER_01Um, I had a mentor once say to me that the any problem in a business is a reflection of a problem with the business owner. And I remember hearing that and and feeling like I feeling winded, feeling like I couldn't breathe for a second, right? Because at the time, I this was you know, a long time ago, last week, uh at the time I had many, many problems in this business. And it was largely because I was in a very different mindset. I was in a state of panic, right? Uh, for a whole bunch of reasons that I won't bore you with. Um, and when I heard that, I was, I was like, oh wow, I really need to look at my if I'm if I want to address these problems in the business, I really need to look at myself and I really need to look at why these problems exist because they are all manifestations of my own thoughts. Everything happening in the business is because I've taken some kind of action and started something and it hasn't gone to plan, and it's because I've Executed poorly and haven't planned well, and that's everything that's going on in here, right? Um, and one of the things that I have one of the things that I've learned, and I've really had to practice is just the art of slowing down and not shooting from the hip so much. And the reason what I've discovered is that, and I know a lot of people find it really easy to sit down and plan. My previous business partner was big on like, let's just sit down and spend half a day planning things. And I'm like, dude, I could like I could make $100,000 this afternoon, let's just go do that instead, right? And you know, somewhere in between, as you say, is the the truth is somewhere in the balance, right? Uh you know, there's that great scene in Monty Python where Brian is about to be hung and and they and they, you know, the girls racing around going, we need to save Brian. And they're like, right, we need to have it, we need to set up a committee, and we need to sit down and have a meeting, and then set up a subcommittee, and they just sit down and they're gonna spend all day planning. And she's like, let's just go and get Brian. Um so somewhere in the middle is is is the truth. The point I'm trying to make very badly is that uh understanding where you want to go and that there is actually a pathway to help you get there. I think one of the most one of the hardest questions to answer, and in particular when I've had a lot of calls over the years with clients and and onboarding people in the programs is when I ask people, well, what do you actually want? And I and I think the reason it's really hard to answer that question. Most people don't know what they want. And I think the reason most people don't a lot of people, I think, in this space who work on their own in small environments or work remotely and spend their entire day looking at the computer, right? And by the way, on the internet, you'll just get the highlight reel of everyone else's perfect life in your feed, right? Yeah, 100%. I think it causes a lot of anxiety, and a lot of people are just chasing the next dopamine hit, right? Which is like the next bit of positive feedback, the next testimonial, the next bit of gratitude, the next win, the next little quick hit, right? And sitting down and actually figuring out what you want and designing a plan to help you get there takes time, it takes brain power, it hurts the brain, it consumes a lot of calories because you're engaging the big part of the brain that requires a lot of energy. And most of the time, we don't know where to start. You can't Google, how do I find out what I want? Right? That's not like there's no template for that. This is and this is where I think the conversations that you have with our our community are so important, regardless of whether or not they end up in one of our programs, because what people usually end up with after a conversation with someone like yourself is clarity and a sense of focus, right? And I wonder if you could just talk to that for a second after my after my rant.
SPEAKER_02No, I love that. That was perfect. Perfect. I love the analogies. And matter of fact, I need to go see that movie. What was it? Monty Python.
SPEAKER_01The Life of Brian, Monty Python, the life of Brian.
SPEAKER_02It's it's a earmark, earmark, gotta go. No, man. You know what a lot of times what happens is we we it what begins to form, truthfully, is this like this echo chamber. It's a literal echo chamber and it's sealed off, right? We can deliver all day long for our clients. We can generate leads and nurture leads and put them on calendars, and we can build beautiful websites and uh deliver all day long. But but applying some of these things outside of the echo chamber, this vacuum almost, uh, to our to ourselves to uh alleviate some of these symptoms, it's a difficult thing to do. I don't know the rhyme and the reason of why this happens, but this is when you arrive on a combo with somebody outside, right, of the of the organization, outside of your business, you're piercing through that echo chamber, you're piercing through that seal, right? And in you, you're allowing what you're really doing is you're poking your head above the surface of the water and saying, okay, this is not where we should be. And I have a new perspective, we're bringing a new perspective, right? And I'm almost creating a new input into this literal cycle that you've been on, right? So the cycle just kind of turns and turns along. And we used to think that that time, I just need time and the cycle will subside, right? But but time, the cycle does not honor time. And matter of fact, the cycle will just increase in its velocity if you just continue waiting as is. But what we truly need is that new input to disrupt that cycle that we're on, to almost force that cycle to uh create a new output for you. Uh so yeah, just really, you know, being uh balanced here again about your approach to the issue, removing the ego, removing the uh, you know, whatever else is preventing you, fear a lot of times is is polarizing, prevents us. A lot of times we just don't want to confront the cold hard truth, right? But what we're seeing with our agency Mavericks family members is those agency owners who are proactively consistently having a fair assessment of where they are in their business, those are the ones who are winning. And because they're getting clarity on where their true where they are where their true current state is.
SPEAKER_01It's it's uh it's humbling. I remember the first time I put my hand up and said, uh, I was I was in the office with my accountant and my business partner at the time when when I had an agency and uh back when dinosaurs roamed the planet, and my accountant was asking my business partner all these questions, and my business partner would look at me, and then the accountant would look at me. And so I was kind of down this end of the table, and my accountant was over there, and my business partner was up the other end of the table next to me because we we weren't really talking at that point. So I was like, stay away from me. So Stuart would ask him a question, my business partner would look at me, and then Stuart, my accountant, would look at me. And after about five minutes of this caper, I was I I went, What are you guys looking at me for? I haven't got a clue what I'm doing. I don't know the answer to any of these questions. And I literally put my hand up and went, I need help. And the moment they kind of looked at me like, What is wrong with you, man? Right. And the moment I did that, I felt the weight of the world lifted off my shoulders. And I had I I received an email the day before this meeting with my accountant from a guy named Ed Dale, who was who was back in the day was one of Australia's big internet marketers. And he sent an email out going, uh basically saying, I've got one spot in my mentoring program left for the rest of the year. Um, it's normally uh seven grand for the year, uh, but I've only it we're halfway through the year, someone's dropped out, I've got a spot left, so it's I'll make it four grand for the remaining six months, whatever, right? And I'm like, I but back then I didn't have four grand, by the way. And I went home from my accountant's office that day. I was working from home, and I said to my wife, I've got to find four grand. I gotta I need to find a credit card, somehow put four grand and figure this out because I need mentoring. I need now I had money coming in through the agency, but I didn't just have a lazy four grand lying around. I found it and I invested it, and it was the best four thousand dollars I'd spent at up until that point because one of the things that I learned the experience of saying I need help was humbling, but it was also incredibly liberating. And I felt like oh, I I remember realizing at that point that the three most powerful words you can utter are I don't know. Because usually what happens is if we're in a conversation, we want to feel, you know, and this really goes, this cuts to the core of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you think about us as a tribal animal, we want to belong. I never want to be in a situation. We're coming out to MavCon in a couple of weeks at San Diego, right? I don't want to be in a situation where I'm hanging out with my people and I feel stupid, or I, or I'm embarrassed, or I've got egg on my face, right? Because all of a sudden it's like, oh, do I still belong to these people? Do I am I still loved? Am I still connected? So what we do is we we tend to make stuff up as a way of impressing the people that we're hanging out with, right? We've all done it. And the most liberating thing is to say, I don't know, because it removes all that pressure to be cool and to be smart and to be hip and funny and all that kind of shit. But also it then allows you to say, Well, I don't know the answer to this question. Let's go find someone who does know the answer and get plugged in with them, and then we can become smarter and we can grow. Whereas if you think you know the answer to everything, there's no room to learn and to model successful behavior of other people, right? So one of the most empowering things I did was say, I don't know, I need some help. I went and got myself a mentor, and then I realized that the way to get a return on investment with any kind of mentoring or coaching is to just soak it up, drink from the fire hose, take it all in, apply what you can and make sure that you apply it until you get your investment back plus one dollar. That's my that's my my rule with everything. If we, I mean, we just invested in another mastermind, it's gonna be, I don't know what it is, 25, 30 grand for the year or whatever. And my goal is to make that plus one dollar back, and then we're in front, and then I also have all this knowledge which can serve us for years to come. Otherwise, it's just infotainment and it's you know, it's entertainment dollars, right? Um so what what what again? Sorry, I went on a bit of a rant there, but uh I I think the point I'm trying to make is that that it takes I think you get to a point where you realize I've been trying to figure this out myself for so long, and I'm frustrated, I'm hitting my head against a brick wall, and now I need someone to help me. What is what what's one of the one of the uh you know, I wonder if you can just talk to that kind of mindset that it's one thing to say, well, I need help, but then it's another thing to turn up, get the help, and actually start to do things differently from the way you've been doing it for 10 years. That's it. That's it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So there's there's a gap there, right? I mean, we we sit in this, I don't know if it's like just the personality type that gravitates towards our world, right? The web agency, the digital marketing agency, but we tend to be the type to be very independent. Uh it introversion is is prevalent, right? Um so it's the mindset of I'm gonna figure this out on my own. And uh, let me just I just need this course over here. Let me consume some more information, and that will be the gap. That'll fill the gap for me, right? Oh, oh well, I consumed that course, and then did I well, I let's not talk about if I applied it or not, but let's oh, there's another course over there, and I think I need that. That's that's the missing. And we're just stuck in this information gathering mode, right? Um, DIY, I'll roll up my sketch out of my way. I'm the best designer, I'm the best web developer, I can do it better than you. So, but what happens is it's we become paralyzed a lot of times and we can't see it because we're so close to the issue, right? It like there's a um Joel and Julia. I was on a call with Yoel. Shout out to Yoel and Julia if you're watching um new New Mavericks Club members, New Mavericks Club family. But he he shared a saying in Peru that they have where it says that a shoemaker never has good shoes. Ah, yeah. And I thought that was so fitting, right? Because we were talking just about this, and he was admitting in a very humble way and he was at the place of like, dude, I just I need help figuring this stuff out. Like, I'm too close to the problem. And so we kind of, you know, we walked through it and we were articulating the fact that, yeah, this is what's going on, and this is why this is happening, and and here's what's gonna be the next step, right? But so what I'm saying is let's draw a line, guys, between that information gathering mode, we have to process the information, and then we have to go and successfully execute um the information. So there's three points of failure that I just named there, right? Um so I don't know. Hopefully that that helps.
SPEAKER_01But yeah. And what do you what do you uh without naming names, what do you see in the people who succeed? With, you know, obviously you've got insight into the people that succeed in our programs, but I think it would apply to if anyone's in any program if they just, I mean, because I'm the I'm the I'm the I'm the consummate course taker, right? I'm also a massive action taker. So I will consume courses extremely quickly, find the gold nugget I need right now, and go apply it. And then I'll go. I still go back and revisit courses that I bought 10 years ago because they were amazing. And I and I'm now at a different part of my journey, and I'm like, actually, this I know it's in that course. I just wasn't ready for it when I saw it, so I'll go back and revisit them. But I also have a lot of coaches and mentors around me that just help me get shit done a lot faster. What are the the habits that you see with the people who are most successful uh in in our programs? Like what is there a kind of a pattern that you can see that, okay, people are enrolling in our programs, the ones who are having the most success typically are you know doing these kinds of things?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, great question. So one the first uh overarching characteristic is they have grit, they have drive and a hunger, right? Um I I could easily my first the first thing that popped in my mind was imperfect action taker, right? That that's that's what we want. But uh we can take imperfect action all day, but if they're that drive and that hunger begins to wane, right, uh to change them, to that desire to want to change from their current state and get enter into that desired state that they're working towards, um, then everything else, nothing else works behind that, right? So just yeah, having that deep-rooted grit, that drive, what is having that alignment with their north star, right? Not on the revenue number, yeah, not on their uh short-term, you know, I need to get better at YouTube ads or Facebook ads. Uh, that's the strategy realm, not even in the methodology realm, right? But but that true, that ideology, that ideology realm. What is why the hell am I doing all this stuff, right? Why am I in business here? Like, what's all what's the point of all this? Yeah. Having a really deep connection with your North Star informs that methodology, right? And this is really the realm where we cannot wait to work with you in that methodology realm because that methodology sits above the strategy. The strategy is down here, and this is where a lot of us get stuck so many times, right? We this is like, oh, I just need to learn this this thing and learn learn notion and learn uh high level and and all these uh gadgets and widgets and whatnot, right? So let's let's pump the brakes on that for a little bit. Let's get your perspective elevated a little bit, and we want to work with you on the approach, the approach, that methodology, right?
SPEAKER_01And you know, it's really interesting because because it's it, you know, I get stuck in the widgets and the gadgets, I love it because that's where the dopamine is, right? Like you you sign up for a new piece of software and you're like, yeah, it's gonna be just like I'm gonna I'm gonna pig at a trough. And I log into a new piece of software, and literally within seven minutes, I'm like, I'm bored. And this is not this is the dopamine's over, I go chase anything. I've had it I've had a lot, I've been on a lot, I've been on the receiving end of a lot of sales calls, right? I've joined a lot of programs, we invest a lot of money, we invest hundreds of thousands of dollars a year into coaching and mentorship here for myself and the team and the company. And very, very rarely do I get someone dig in and ask me why we're doing what we're doing. I think there's a I think there's a it's a a real art form to be able to ask someone why they're in business other than or or to ask someone what would it mean if this business failed, what would that mean to you and your life, right? I think there's a real art form to being able to ask that question and genuinely be interested in the answer. That's it, rather than ask that question just so that you can tee up some kind of emotional driver to use back on the prospect later in the call to actually close them, right? Yes. And not many people have figured that out, and that's I believe that's why a lot of people don't. I've I haven't experienced that question a lot. Like a lot of people don't ask me about my background and my history and why I do what I do. I mean, I've got a great story about my grandfather and trying to kind of, you know, which is which is I've only realized this later in life. I never started out going, I want to continue my grandfather's legacy. This has just really been something that's evolved over time. And I'm like, holy shit, that's why I do what I do. And also because I have a family and I want to be a provider and all that kind of stuff. Very, very few people in a sales conversation will ask me those kind of questions. How do you how I I don't know if you can even explain this, but like, how do you have that conversation without it being like a cheesy sales tactic thing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And you know what? Unfortunately, there are scripts out there, there's sales scripts out there that tell you, ask this question next, right? Uh ask them what what is their beyond the business, what is your extrinsic motivation, right? Like, do you have family? Are you a how many kids do you have? And it's just very contrived. And you can so here's here's the thing, guys. Like, we we have to be aware that buyer awareness, yes, is at an all-time high, which is great, right? Their awareness of the digital goods and gifts that we bring to the world, they're aware, which is great. However, on the other side of that, inversely, is buyer sophistication is at an all-time high as well. So they're equally aware of what they don't want. I'm getting my slides mixed up here. They're equally aware of what they don't want as they are as what they do want, right? So there it's a much more nuanced buyer today in 2022, right? So, I mean, let's get like the the further away from the script as you can get, the less, right? And the more centered as a human being, and like what we talked about to kick off this call, right? Getting your approach into that conversation that I am here to serve and help this business owner or whoever reach their goals, right? Let's let's have a conversation just grounded, balanced, and and and we'll uncover the truth. And when that is laid out, the questioning behind it sort of just everything seems to fall into place. And as it reveals itself, right, you will know. You'll know when to step in. When when that door starts to creak open a little bit, you'll know that's the opportunity to be uh relentlessly curious, right? And and that's the other trait. Let's have conversations and be relentlessly curious.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Relentlessly curious. That's the annoying six-year-old who asks why. I was that kid, right? Oscar's Oscar's five now, but he's that kid. Goldie is like two, and she's starting to ask, What dad, where are you going this morning? Oh, like put my jacket on. Where are you going? I'm going to the the studio. Why? I'm going to work. Why? She would like, you know, she wants, she's relentlessly curious because she's two, right? She's like, what the fuck is going on in this world? And what does this all mean? And who am I? And right? Who are you? And relentlessly curious. So so think questions like, tell me more about that, and what does that mean? And can you can you explain that to me and help me understand that? And just open-ended questions to really and we're not we're not trying to uncover. We're not trying to the way I see this is and I think it look, a lot of this comes down to the fact that if you're if you're new, and I don't mean young, but if you're new in this business as a as an agency owner, or you're new to the sales process, or you need the project, you really need the revenue, right? That's a very disempowering place to be. Whereas I don't give a shit anymore. If I'm on a call with someone and we can't help them, like I've I have nothing to lose. I don't care. Like I'm I'm like I they I have no attachment to people buying at all, right? In fact, I had a call recently with uh a new client, a new private client of mine. My mindset going into the call was like, I just need to tell this person it's not gonna work out, like it's not gonna work. And they basically sold me into coaching them. So, but I but I think that comes from life experience and time in the trenches, right? So it's not that the relentlessly curious thing is not about trying to uncover something that you can use against them to close them, it's about genuinely discovering whether or not we are a good fit to help this person and if they have a need and a desire to fix that need that we can actually help them with. Because otherwise it's not gonna be a good fit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the intent behind that being relentless. Why am I relentlessly curious? It's because I care about you, bro. Like I you we've we've spent some time on this call together. You've shared some some pretty you know intimate details of what's going on. Like uh let me just let me connect this to yours and right, and I can just let's go from there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And generally.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, you're you you owned an agency at one point, right? So genuinely, like agency owner to agency owner, I'm here to genuinely tell, regardless of whether or not we end up working together, if you keep doing the things that you tell me you've been doing, the problems are still going to be there. Jeremy Moff, who I know shouted out on last week's call, he had a call with you recently and he said, Damien, I'm looking through a notebook here. I made notes on a call with Troy five years ago, and the problems I wrote down on that sheet of paper are still the same problems I've got in the agency right now. So something's got to change, and it's me. So let's go, you know? But I think and I think if you genuinely have that um authentic empathy for someone and you genuinely want them to succeed, right? That and it will be sometimes where you say, look, we're not the droids you're looking for, man. I genuinely want you to succeed, therefore you need to go find another sandbox to play in because we can't help you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It does go there.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it's a I know it's a cliche, but Zig Ziggler, uh, I think was the one that said you can have everything you want in life if you just help other people get what they want. And it that law of reciprocity does it's it's true, right? Really? Um, so I just want to switch gears a second. We've talked a lot about uh what it takes for people to succeed in some kind of program or you know, online courses or coaching, whatever. I wanna I wonder if you could like distill the most common problems that people are having when they turn up to talk to you. What is the most common batch of things, without naming names? What is the most common batch of things that you hear people are struggling with, the most common challenges that people are having?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that great question. So overwhelm just really just leaps out uh right now off the top of my head. They just feel like there's no rhyme or reason in their agency, right? Matter of fact, I had a call yesterday and a gentleman held up a sheet of paper and it looked like uh like ancient hieroglyphics or something. And but and he said, Damien, this is my this is my or like this is how I keep myself organized. This is my to-do list. And brother, if you're watching, hey, we're gonna help you, man. We got you. You're in the right place. Um so you know, uh having a sense of a sequential sequence of a sequential, uh, like a dictate, an actual order, an intentional order of okay, I need to address this first, then this, then this, but to do that on their own, they it's it's it's a difficult thing, right? It we've talked about this previously on the call. And this is where we step in and we're that new input to that cycle. We literally are locking arms with you and getting in the trenches with you to be that guided mentor to help you traverse that gap of all the all the courses that you've consumed, all the information, all the ideation, and traverse that canyon from ideation to successful execution, right? So some of the common symptoms, and I'm gonna say symptoms is because they start off as symptoms, but then we uncover a little bit more and we actually identify a different root cause. So, like another example, so overwhelm, right? And people come into these, uh a lot of our a lot of our members here, they will come into these calls that that we feel they feel like they need team help, right? We need another, I need another um web developer to help me, or I need another VA to help take calls, or but as we begin to unpack, we realize, well, it's because your productization is a mess. Like you're offering everything under the sun and you're very much reactive, right? You you're a victim of scope creep right now, and you're just the the scope of work is just piling on, and there's no there's no clear set guidelines for your team. Um, so let's address the root cause of this first, and then we will get consistent predictable revenue up front, and then we'll reassess whether or not you have that team member on your on your staff or not, and then yeah, now we can hire from a place of abundance, right? Instead of hiring from a place of reactive, reactiveness or availability or or budget, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because sometimes if you because if your business model is broken, adding more people to the team is just like chucking another egg in the scrambled mess, and then you know it's very hard to unscramble an egg, you know what I mean? It's very hard to put them back, especially if you've got three in the pot. It's like where's where's Jimmy? Oh, he's mixed in with Jane, I can't separate them now. And if your business model is a mess, adding more people is not the answer. Fixing the business model before you add so and you know, uh I find if you go uh if you peel the onion skin back another layer, right? I find that and I put myself in this camp, a lot of a lot of the you know, in order to grow, I don't know how many people we've got on the team now, but when I first started out in 2007, I remember saying to my wife's godmother at the time, who was really the one that encouraged me to hire people. I remember saying to her, I don't want to hire people, I don't want that responsibility. I was scared of the responsibility, right? This is 15 years ago. 15 years ago, I was scared of the responsibility of managing team members. I wasn't so much scared about not being able to afford to pay them, I was scared about the responsibility of managing them, right? Because I don't want to I don't want to manage people. It's partially why I resigned as CEO. Like I don't, I just don't, I just want to hang out with people, I don't want to manage them. My approach is we hire grown-ups, they should just do their fucking job, right? Like I don't want to have to manage people. It's like if you're not doing your job, well, why do we hire you? You shouldn't be here. I want to hire competent adults and then just let them be adults, right? So I resisted hiring people for a long time. Now there's, I don't know, 25 people in the business or whatever, and it's you know, we have structures in place, and I think we're doing a pretty good job. There's always things we can improve. But the point I'm trying to make is that I think a lot of the times the business owner is scared to go to the next level of growth because it means, and I know this, I reflect on in hindsight now. I can reflect on this and say that as your business grows, your business can't grow if you are not growing as an individual, right? So as a as a leader, as an individual, as a business owner, if you are not if you are scared to grow and become a new version of yourself, then your business won't grow. It it's it's it's in it's it's not possible for your business to grow if you're not prepared to grow as an individual. And I my theory is that a lot of the times that's just it's easier and it feels safer to stay in your comfort zone and to stay in the kind of world that you've created for yourself, right? Whether it's doing the code or running the campaigns or designing the thing, right? It's like I know how to do this, so I'm just gonna do this because it's comfortable. Uh, I think it's actually risky, but it feels safer. And so a lot of the times the business owner just needs to be prepared to take that step and to evolve and to grow as an individual before their business can grow.
SPEAKER_02That's it. That's it. Matter of fact, that's it's the irresponsible thing to do. But what you've now done is you've created a conduit, right, of that bottlenecks right at you. A conduit in your business that bottlenecks right at you. So if you God forbid, get sick, or something happens to you and you're the one, only one taking sales calls, or you're the sole strategic decision maker, right? And uh what happens? Now the livelihood of your business suffers as a result of you not being there in presence. So the responsible thing in a healthy, any healthy and thriving business is to find people who are better than you at what you do, that thing that you do, um, and that you're so attached to, and that maybe maybe you're not the best at it. That's right. Maybe you know that they're not that you might not be. Um and now you have taken that step towards building redundancy in your business, right? Uh, we talk about a lot of the team accelerator aspect of our business. We talk a lot about how we will actually find, vet, and place that team member that you need. Let us know who it is, who you need. We'll hold a briefing call and we'll find them for you. We'll give you that. We feed you the fish, right? Feed you for the day. However, we don't stop there. We believe in teaching you how to fish as well. So we will actually teach you how we went out and found that rock star team member so that you can begin to build that recruitment pipeline and build that redundancy in your team because that's what we want for you ultimately.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and I think a lot of business owners, I talk to agency owners every day, and I think a lot of them get to that place where they're like, Well, if I'm not doing the thing, what do I'm what do I do? Who am I if I'm not doing the thing? Because I've been doing this thing for 10 years. I get off on serving my clients, I get a lot of gratitude. Everyone loves me. This is my sense of worth. If I hire someone to come in and be an account manager and do the thing, then what do I who am I? What do I do? Right? Who am I? Right. And that's a very that's a challenging. I've seen a lot of agency owners go through that journey, come out the other side and be better off for it because now they have an asset that is profitable and it basically runs without them. And they're thinking about way bigger opportunities, and they're able to add more value to their empire because they're not stuck in the doing the thing, right? But it's it's a journey to actually remove yourself from that from doing the thing. And a lot of people remove themselves from their agency, but then actually doing it is very tricky because it kind of forces you to question who you are and the value that you bring, and that's a confronting conversation to have in your in your mind, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, a lot of times what happens is we slap the band-aid on on a symptom when you know we need to be proactively addressing the root causes of the issues, right? So we slap band-aids on things, it it'll it'll hold for a little bit, um but eventually it'll rear its ugly head again. So there we are. Uh what our capacity went. And we don't have capacity because we don't have efficiency, right? Let's flip that on its head. If we can begin to build efficiency into the business, it'll increase the capacity. When you have increased capacity, now you have the time, energy, mental bandwidth to think about the things to further increase your efficiency, right? So it's it's it's cyclical for sure. But it's a matter of stepping outside the cycle, getting that external input, that new input into your business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I think you mentioned it before a lot of this comes from people just trying to be everything to everyone all the time, right? Oh, we do everything. We do websites, we do, you know, we print t-shirts, we design, we put logos on your banner, we make a website, we run SEO campaign, we do Facebook ads, we, you know, TikTok, you name it, we do it. And it's a fucking mess. By the way, there's a great website full of band-aids. Uh, if you want a temporary solution, it's called absumo.com. Go and check it out.
SPEAKER_02Um that's the perfect analogy. Oh god.
SPEAKER_01Hey, this has been a great conversation. I could do this. It's called the agency hour, so we kind of have to wrap it up, unfortunately. But I'll just do this. Let's let's let's let's handle it. Let's break the cycle in San Diego with you, man. I can't wait to hang out. I'm gonna we're gonna met in real life, right? I mean, I have legs, you have legs, I can't wait to see your legs in real life. In San Diego in a couple of weeks, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've been hitting the squat rack for you, man.
SPEAKER_01Excellent, thank you very much. Uh fantastic. Looking forward to hanging out. Um, so any parting thoughts of wisdom that you'd like to leave uh our audience, not to put you on the spot, but I just have.
SPEAKER_02I just uh I just cannot wait to hop on a chat. Let's just let's just have a casual combo, let's see where you're at. I would just love to meet you if anything. And if anything, you walk away with some very tangible, grounded next steps, actionable steps for your business. Uh, but more than anything, yeah, let's just let's just exchange fellow agency owner here, fellow business owner. I I won't just be hearing you here. I'm feeling you here. Okay. Um, and that's that's that's the uh that's the heart of it all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, love it. Uh if you do want to have a chat with Damien, just hit us up and support at agencymaveric.com and we'll make that happen. We'll manage Damien's calendar and get you on a call with Damien to have a chat about how we can help you if we can and if we can't, what you should do next, and hopefully set you on the right path. And looking forward to hanging out with you in a couple of weeks at Mavcon. Of course, that is September 12 to 14 in San Diego. Huge shout out to all of our sponsors. I'm gonna forget them, but it's gridpain, it's go WP, it is WP Remote and Blog Vault have just come on as our platinum sponsor, which I'm super excited about. Termageddon and my web audit. I think I got them all. Did I you nailed it, man? Yeah, yeah. If I've I've got someone sorry, uh let me someone will let me know in the comments. Um, and if you want to come to Mavcon, there are uh a few tickets left for non-Mavericks club members. So if you want to come and check it out, just email support at agencemavericks.com and uh come and hang out with us for three days in San Diego. Hey Damien, thank you so much for doing this. Uh it's been awesome to have you on the agency hour. We should definitely do this again. And yeah, looking forward to meeting you in a couple of weeks, dude. Likewise, brother. Thank you for having me, man. This has been a blast. Love it, love it. All right, take care. Ladies and gentlemen, that's another episode of the Agency Hour Live here in the Digital Mavericks Facebook group. Check us out on Spotify and Google Play and Downcast and wherever you get your podcast. Like, subscribe, share, do whatever you need to there to help us get this in front of more agency owners so that we can help more people. And go and check out our YouTube channel. We just locked up 10,000 subscribers and we are going all in on a new YouTube strategy soon. Uh, we are upping our game big time there. And uh we are going to start live streaming this show onto our Facebook page and our YouTube channel in a few weeks once I am back from uh from the States for Mavcon. All right, look forward to speaking with you again soon. I think we've got one more call next week, and then I'm off for a couple of weeks. I think Johnny Flash might be coming in to host the show while I'm away, so keep your eyes out for that. Uh, until next week, have a great week. I'll see you then. My name's Troy Dean. Have a great day. Bye for now.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour Podcast. Subscribe at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pocketcast, Audible, and wherever you'd like to listen. You can catch all of the Agency Hour episodes on our YouTube channel at youtube.com slash agency Mavericks. Or you can get involved. Check out our free Digital Mavericks Facebook group, where we broadcast these episodes live for our community every week, along with a ton of free training. We'll see you there.