I have many a time in my career convinced someone out of building a website because I know it wasn't the right thing for them because they had no audience, they had no traffic, they had no marketing budget, and they wanted to spend five, six, seven, eight thousand dollars on a website that I knew was coming out of their savings and would not make a difference to their business. Hey gang, welcome to the Agency Hour podcast. This week it's just you and me hanging out talking about the one skill that you absolutely must master in your agency and the three very practical things you can do this afternoon to get you moving in the right direction. Talking about the art of sales. Now, before you hit eject and take the cassette out of the Walkman and go and do something else, stay with me because I promise you by the end of this episode, whatever you're currently feeling about sales will have shifted in some way. I'm going to talk about sales. Even if you're an introvert, even if you hate selling, even if you think that sales is icky and yucky and unnecessary, and I don't need to be good at sales because I just get great referrals and word of mouth. I want to tell you a few stories about sales and I want to give you some practical tips that will help you become a better salesperson. And hopefully, by the end of this episode, you won't feel icky about the word salesperson. You'll be able to refer to yourself as a salesperson and without it feeling uncomfortable. And you'll also realize that mastering the art of sales is the most important skill that you can master in your business because if you don't, you're constantly relying on other people to eat. Right? Even if you have great referrals from referral partners or you have great word of mouth from your existing customers, you are still relying on other people to effectively sell you to their friends or their colleagues. That's what referral partners do. We had a design agency years and years and years ago when we had a development agency, we had a design agency that would refer all their work to us. And that was great because the we didn't have to do anything to get the leads, we didn't have to do anything to convert them into clients. They came to us and they said, Hey, Mark and Andrew have referred you guys, you guys are the ones to build the website. In fact, a lot of the time Mark and Andrew would just say, Hey, we've designed this website, we need you guys to build it. They'd put us in touch with the client, and the client didn't even question the fact that we were the right people to do the job. The problem with all of that is that if Mark and Andrew weren't referring us business, then we had no projects to work on, right? And I felt vulnerable about that. So as much as the referral was great and the trust was already there in the relationship and we didn't have to work, we didn't have to do anything really to convert that prospect into a client, we also had no control over that lead flow. And that became a problem. So we had to figure out how to get our own leads and our own clients. And if so that's referrals, and if you're just relying on word of mouth, then you're actually relying on your existing clients to tell their colleagues that you do a great job and that they should also engage you, which again is fantastic because there's a lot of trust in the relationship when that new prospect comes to you because they've been referred by an existing client who you've done great work with, so you don't have to work as hard to convert them into a client, but again, you have no control over that. You sure you can ask your existing clients for referrals and word of mouth, but if they don't, if they literally don't know anyone that could benefit from working with you, then you're screwed. You have no control over your revenue. And I don't know about you, but I like to have control over my revenue because I like to be able to pay my staff, I like to be able to pay for the things in life that I want to pay for, I like to be able to pay the bills, I like to be able to give my family the things that we need. I like to be able to provide for myself and my family and my, you know, my community. I donate to charities, I support other causes, and I can't do any of that if I don't have any control over the revenue that we earn. So this is not a conversation about lead gen. Uh, that's a whole other conversation. What I want to talk about here is sales and why sales is important and how to start thinking about sales and how to get better at sales, even if you hate selling and even if you feel like you're an introvert. And I know this might surprise a lot of people, but the older I get, the more introverted I feel like I'm becoming. And this is actually quite common. There have been a lot of studies that the older you get, the more you just like your own company, and the more you just prefer a bit of quiet time, right? I really need Troy time regularly just to stay sane and to decompress. So, you know, a lot of the time, most weeks, I will hang back in the office on a Thursday night, which is also a recording studio, and I'll just goof off and play the drums and play guitar. I might have a couple of buddies over to sort of decompress. But a lot of the time I just like hanging here by myself and doing my own little projects and, you know, just being by myself and not having any external uh stimulation. And that doesn't mean I can't get on the phone and talk to people and lead them towards potentially a life-changing decision, which is what sales is all about, is leading someone to making the right decision that's going to help them get the outcome that they want. And we'll talk more about that in a moment. So the point I'm trying to make here is that even if you feel like you're introverted and you're not full of charisma and you don't have a great personality and you can't say all the right things at the right time, none of that matters. That's not what sales is about. A lot of salespeople do rely on their personality and their charisma and their presentation and their disposition and and and their, you know, the way that they talk or the jokes that they tell or their ability just to connect with people. You know, you'll hear this a lot. You need to have great people skills and have the gift of the gab to be a great salesperson. That's not true. Sure, sometimes that can be advantageous, sometimes it can actually get in the way. Uh, I've listened to a lot of sales calls over the last few years, and there have been many a time where I've been on the other end of the recording screaming at my salesperson, going, Oh, just shut up and stop talking. You don't need to talk right now, just listen. So sometimes being a talker, having to give to the gab, which I am naturally, I like to talk, even if people aren't around, I like to talk to myself. Um, sometimes that gets in the way, right? So don't feel like you need to be an extrovert or you need to be a great talker or you need to be, you know, full of charisma or funny or entertaining to be a great salesperson. You don't. I believe what you need to be a great salesperson is a process. You need a framework to follow. And there are three things I want to talk about in this particular episode of the agency hour that I know will help make you a better salesperson. I'll list them out what what they are right now and then I'll go into more detail. The first one is to ask lots of questions, the second one is to get permission to move forward throughout the conversation. I'll come back to that in a moment. And the third one is to stop selling services. Don't sell websites or SEO. Package up what you do into a great offer. And I'll give you some examples of that in a moment. Before I break those three things down, I just want to tell you a couple of stories. I've been to a lot of WordCamps and conferences around the world where uh as a speaker, because of the podcast and because we put a lot of content out, uh, I'm I I go to these conferences and I'm quite well known, and I say that humbly, but I go to a lot of these conferences and a lot of people there already know who I am. And I've had a lot of um instances where I've been having lunch with someone or just hanging out afterwards in the hallways at WordCamps or conferences, talking to someone, and after 10 or 15 minutes, this has happened a lot. They will admit to me, they'll say, you know, I I always thought you were a bit of a shark, but you know, having got to know you now, you you're actually I'm really glad I've got to know you because you're a really nice guy, and I I I don't think you're a shark. And I'm like, oh well great, that's a back-handed compliment, thank you very much. And I always ask them there's two things here. One, I like the fact that they think I'm a shark, and I'll come back to that in a second. But the first question I ask them is, why do why do you think I'm a shark? And the feedback I get is because, well, you're always talking about sales and making money, and we always, you know, the kind of the perception is that you're always talking about charging, overcharging people for what you do and then outsourcing it offshore and getting it done cheap. Now, there's a lot to unpack there, right? There's a lot to unpack there. But I want to talk about uh the first thing is uh the fact that I talk about sales a lot, and I do, and I'm not ashamed of that. I'm proud of the fact that I talk about sales a lot because I don't think enough people talk about sales, and I think the reason that not enough people talk about sales is because they feel like it's a bit slimy and a bit icky, or they don't know where to start. And I actually think a lot of this comes from the fact that they feel like they're not very good at it, and therefore they don't want to talk about it or they don't want to engage with it because who wants to do things that they're not good at? Right? It makes you feel a bit stupid if you do something you're not good at, makes you feel a bit vulnerable. I actually think that's why most people don't want to talk about sales or they don't even want to engage in a conversation about sales. I mean, if you go to a party, right, with a bunch of parents from kinda and someone's someone says, Oh, what do you do? And they say I'm a salesperson or a banker, you go, Ugh, don't really want to talk to you, right? If they say, I work for a non-profit and I'm here saving the planet, you go, Oh, you're lovely. We should talk more. But if they say they're a salesperson, you're a bit skeptical. You're right, oh, I better stay away from you. You might try and fleece my wallet out of my back pocket. And I think the reason that salespeople have that perception is because people who aren't in sales or don't consider themselves a salesperson don't understand it, they they're afraid of it, and it's easy to just say, ugh, that's a bit yucky. Uh, you know, I don't want to talk about that. And we've all had experiences where we've been sold the wrong thing by just a hungry salesperson who wants to make the commission. So there is that. We've all had those bad experiences. So I think a lot of people think I'm a shark because I talk about sales a lot. I don't make any apologies for that. I will continue to talk about sales. I think more people should talk about sales because the more we talk about it, the more we can demystify it, the more we can debunk the myths, the more we can get to the truth of it. And I believe the truth of sales is that it's a leadership conversation where you're actually just helping someone make the right decision to buy the right product or the or enroll in the right program or buy the right service. Uh, and that can ultimately be a life-changing decision for the client. If they buy the right product or they enroll in the right program and get the results, it can be life-changing for them. So I'm going to continue to talk about sales. I hope that's okay with you. The second story I want to talk is uh about is why I think people are really afraid of sales. And I've I've kind of touched on this that I think people aren't very good at it and so they don't want to engage in it. But I think this actually comes down to one of my favorite frameworks to understand human behavior is Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you're not familiar, is there are six levels of need that drive human behavior. The first, and I'm paraphrasing him, but the first is is you know, food and and shelter, right? Just like basic survival. The second is uh shel is um is safety for myself and my family. The third is a sense of belonging, connection, love. The fourth is um esteem, so self-esteem and esteem from others, uh which is, you know, when people point to you and go, Oh, you should go and talk to John because he's really good at blah, blah, blah. That's esteem, right? Someone's referencing you or referring you because you've become known for something. That's more than just belonging to the tribe, that's actually now esteem. And the fifth is uh self-actualization, and then the sixth, which Abraham Maslow added later in his uh career, is self-transcendence, which is a whole other conversation. But the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the popular version of it, has those first five levels, and level three is the sense of belonging, uh, the connection, love, belonging to the tribe, right? Human beings are very much a pack animal, and we need to belong to the tribe. And I believe a lot of that that is actually the reason a lot of people don't want to talk about sales or don't want to don't want to engage in the idea or the art or the conversation of sales, because they don't want to come across as a slimy salesperson trying to sell somebody something just for the sake of making some money because they feel like they might be ostracized from the tribe. And so therefore, they don't master the art of sales, they just rely on referrals, word of mouth, or hope to bring in revenue, and they're always a little bit vulnerable. And I know from experience that there is a way to do sales with authenticity, with integrity, and without selling people the wrong thing. I have a personal philosophy that I will only enrol people into a program where I know it's an absolute good fit for them, and I won't enroll people into a program if I if I don't think we can actually help them. There are plenty of salespeople who will enroll you in the wrong program or sell you the wrong product just because they want to make a commission, right? So I get that. I understand why sales has a bad rap from that point of view. But my personal philosophy is I like to sleep well at night and look my kids in the face knowing that I've done the right thing by people. So I will not enrol people in the pro in a in any program or sell them any product or service unless I know it can actually help them. So just back to a web design agency, if you're in terms of selling with integrity, I have many a time in my career convinced someone out of building a website because I know it wasn't the right thing for them because they had no audience, they had no traffic, they had no marketing budget, and they wanted to spend five, six, seven, eight thousand dollars on a website that I knew was coming out of their savings and would not make a difference to their business. And what I suggested that they do first is to spend a couple of thousand dollars on Facebook ads, getting their offer right, getting people booked into calls, and figuring out whether they could actually make something out of what they had rather than spending money on a website that was going to just sit on the internet as a graveyard and not bring in any leads or clients, because I know that if you build it, they will not come. You only build it if they are beating down the door, demanding it. So there have been many a time over the years that I've convinced people not to build a website, not to do SEO. I have a private client at the moment, and I just convinced them not to do SEO because I don't think they've got their offer dialed in. I said, I really think you should spend the significant amount of money that you're looking at spending on SEO. We're talking five figures a month that they're considering spending on SEO. Not with me, by the way, because I don't do SEO. So they'll be I don't I don't implement services for clients these days, right? I just coach, I do strategy, I do consulting, but I don't actually do implementation. So I don't build full transparency, I don't build websites, I don't run SEO campaigns, I don't run ads, I don't do design, I don't do copywriting, I don't build funnels, I don't do automation, I I advise, I guide, I help people work out their goal, I help them design strategy, I give them a plan, I coach them through that, I hold them accountable. I don't do anything for them these days. Okay, so full transparency. Just wanted to be clear about that. But when I was, when I did have the agency, I would convince people not to spend money on services all the time. So this private client I have, I just convinced them not to spend five figures a month on SEO because I think they should put part of that money into ads first to make sure that we get the offer right. Right? SEO is going to take six to nine months to get results. And I think this client can make a three or four or five times ROAS from their ad spend now, over the next three months, get the offer right, get some more revenue in the door, then we can redirect some of that revenue into SEO. For me, if I was an SEO agency, I could not with integrity sell that client SEO right now because I don't think they're ready for it. And it's the long game. I think they should just put the money into ads and getting their offer right. Anyway, so that's an example of of how I think you should be thinking about sales. It's not about selling the person the thing just to make the money, it's about selling the person the right thing at the right time to get them the right outcome. And that's about playing the long game. And sometimes selling somebody against the idea of doing something is actually more beneficial for the long-term relationship than going for the quick win and just getting the quick dollars. The third kind of story I want to talk about is, and we've already sort of touched on this a little bit, is what happens if you don't learn sales. And if you don't, if you don't learn sales, and I I mean like really go deep and learn the art of sales, then you're constantly dependent on other people to feed yourself and your family. And I that just makes me feel vulnerable. And and I'm I clearly remember the moment where I decided that I had to learn how to process and document and systemize sales because I didn't want to be the only person in my business that was responsible for bringing in revenue. And I remember it was early 2020, we were in the middle of lockdown here in Melbourne, we'd just had our second child. I came back into the business after a few weeks off of parental leave. I didn't like what I saw. I, you know, it became very apparent to me that the only way that our business made money is when I was at the helm on sales calls with people and driving the bus. And I thought, this is not sustainable. I like doing sales, I like talking to people, but I can't do everything. I can't be head of marketing, do all the sales calls, and do all the coaching, create the podcast, make all the training videos. I can't do everything, right? So I need to get other people in the business who know how to enroll clients into the right program and who are confident and have conviction in what we do and can sit in those sales seats. And so I made a decision. I clearly remember I was out in the front yard on the phone with a gentleman who runs a sales agency, and we were talking about them coming in and helping us grow our sales. And I remember pulling the trigger and saying, Yep, okay, let's do it, and having a conversation with myself in my head that said, Okay, dude, this is it, you're all in. You are going to learn the art of sales. At that point, I knew that I was good at sales, but I had no idea how to teach it. And at that point, I decided you are going to learn the art of sales, and you are going to teach it to your team and you are going to teach it to your clients. Because if you don't understand how to how to systemize this and how to teach it, you are always going to be the one responsible for bringing in the revenue. And I don't want to be that person. There are other things I want to do in the business and in my life. I don't want to always be the one sitting in front of the client, enrolling them in the program in order for our business to make revenue. So I made a decision to go all in and learn as much as I possibly could about sales. Now we have a very particular sales process in this business and it's different for different types of business models. I think if you're a service provider and you want to sell premium stuff to premium clients, I think our sales process is awesome. I didn't invent it. It's a combination of a bunch of things I've learned from people like Christian Mickelson back in 2013, I think it was. I first discovered his stuff. Frank Kern, I've learned a bunch of stuff from him over the years. I've learned a bunch of stuff from all from Cole Gordon, from Mike Mark. We've actually hired both of those guys to help us recruit salespeople and learn their process. Um, I'll tell you in a minute, if you stay with me, I'll tell you who I'm following at the moment, who is, I believe, the number one person that you should be following online, apart from myself, of course. If you want to learn more about sales, I'll tell you who I'm following at the moment and and whose rabbit hole I am deep down, if you like. But the point is, I have made it my mission. I've flown around the world. One of the first things I I did back in 2013 was I flew to San Diego to a Frank Kern event to learn about sales and had the um good fortune of meeting Ryan Dice at that event and Mike feelsame. And I watched these guys and I learned a lot from these guys about sales. Uh, and then I've learned more in the last three years or the last two and a half years. Years from actually doing it than I have learned from studying it. And that's, I think, one of the key messages in this episode is you'll you'll learn so much by studying sales, but you'll learn a lot more if you just get in the ring and you put the gloves on and you just, you know, get in there and have conversations with people. Right, to come back to the three practical things that I think you can implement right now. These are things that you can do this afternoon to help you become a better salesperson. One, actually, there's there's four. Zero is just start referring to yourself as a salesperson for an hour a day and say, right, for this hour today, I'm a salesperson. And whatever comes up for you, if that makes you feel icky or it makes you feel a bit slimy or it doesn't gel with you for whatever reason, just let that feeling flow down the river and just tell yourself for an hour, okay, for this hour today, I'm operating and functioning as a salesperson. And my job is to sell the right thing to the right person at the right time. Okay. So there's that, which is the mindset piece. Now these are three very practical things you can do on your next call with a client. One, ask lots of questions. So I I hinted at these at the start of the episode. I'm going to go deep on them now. Ask lots of questions. Rule number one, ask lots of questions. You do not need to talk anywhere near as much as you think you do in order to bring a client on to the right service or the right product or the right program. You do not need to, it's not a job interview. You do not need to explain why you're the best person for the job or where you've used this plug-in in the past, or you just don't need to do that. If you go to the doctor, you do not ask the doctor where they studied, you do not ask the doctor for testimonials from their previous patients, you do not ask the you don't ask the doctor anything, right? The only question you ask the doctor is, Doctor, I have this symptom, where is it coming from and how can I fix it? You don't ask the doctor anything about themselves. Hey, what brand of stethoscope are you using? That's the same question as, hey, are we going to do this on WordPress or Drupal? Right? You do not need to answer those questions. And if the client's asking those questions, it's because they don't trust you. Or they're just a pain in the ass and they're probably not the right client to deal with. Your job is to ask lots of questions, right? Your job is to ask them lots of questions about their symptoms. I've been teaching this for since 2012. We had a program called the Blueprint, and in that program there's a lesson called Go Wide, Go Deep. It's very similar to the five whys framework. Like if you just ask someone why five times, you'll get a much different answer than if you just ask them the question once, right? So, hey, why do you need to build a website? Well, we need to build a website because everyone else has got one. Okay, great. And what color would you like to no no hang on a second? Let's just park here. Why do you need to build a website just because everyone else has got one? And then see how they answer that question. And then ask why again. And then ask so just ask why five times. You'll get a very different answer than if you ask why once, okay? So ask lots of questions and get them to do all the talking. Uh, some of the best strategic questions you can ask is what does success look like in six months' time if we are high-fiving and sipping French champagne because this has been an absolute mind-blowing success of a collaboration, what does that look like? How will you know this is successful? And get them to tell you what the success criteria is. Chances are they won't be able to answer that question. So your job is to help them with some examples. Well, how many leads would you like? What's the conversion rate? What's the ROAS on your ad spend? Uh, what is how many graduates would you like applying from graduate school for this position? Is it a recruitment funnel we're putting together? Like what are the metrics that tell us this has been successful? So, rule number one, ask lots of questions. Rule number two is when it's time to present what it is you do, get permission to move forward each step of the way. So, one of my favorite things to do, and I learned this from Cole Gordon, is to say, hey, based on everything you've told me, I think we're a perfect fit to help you. So, what do you want to do? You want me just to lay out the A to Z of what this might look like? And what you're doing there is you're asking them for permission to explain your offer to them. And of course they're gonna say, Yeah, that would be great. How do you think you can help? Because they, even at that point, it's not about you. Even at that point, they don't care how qualified you are to help them. What they want is a solution to their problem. And you've just hinted at the fact that you can help them. So would you like me to explain how this might work? And of course, they're saying yes, because I need to solve this problem or we need to explore this opportunity, right? We are here on this call because we want an outcome. So, yes, can you please explain what it looks like? They're always going to give you permission. Then the syntax of how we break this down is to say, cool, everything we do is custom for each client. Uh in your case, there's three things that we would do. The first one is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Does that make sense? Do you have any questions about that? And again, what you're doing is you're inviting them into a dialogue and you're asking them to give you permission to move forward. Any other questions about that? Okay. Would you like to know the second thing that we do? Yes, of course I would. Great. So what we would do then is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And again, ask them lots of questions, get them to ask lots of questions. You know, have any questions about this, anything you want clarified? Technically, what you're doing here is you're overcoming objections in advance. Right? So instead of just going, what we would do is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and da-da-da-da-da, and then we would do the thing, and then we would, you know, hook it up the flagpole, and we would wave the thing, and then we'd get a bunch of people to do the what's in my job and blah, blah, blah, and they go, wow, that's very confusing. And you say, Great, so shall we move forward? And they go, hang on a second, I have some questions. And then you've got like a bank of objections that you have to that you have to overcome. What we do instead is we get them to ask questions along the way. So we keep it conversational. It's a dialogue, and we're answering their objections as we're moving through the process. And then step three would be blah, blah, blah. Do you have any questions about that? So we break it down, we keep it dialogical. I can't believe I just used the word dialogical on a podcast. We keep it conversational and we get permission to move forward every step of the way, right? So it feels collaborative. The third thing we do is we don't sell services. We create a killer offer that they just can't refuse. Now, there's we have a whole training around this called The Godfather Method, and I'm also going to give you a book that I think you should read very soon. Um, I'll I'll mention that in a moment, so stay with me. But one of the examples I want to give you here is from uh completely not from the agency world or from the service industry. It's actually from McDonald's. I remember 150 years ago when I was a teenager and I went to McDonald's, because I literally haven't eaten McDonald's for a long time, but when I went to McDonald's, uh I would get a happy meal. And a happy meal was an experience, right? I mean it's called a happy meal, it's designed to make you happy. What's in a happy meal? A junior burger, a Coke, fries, and then eventually and and a little plastic toy, right? And I would always go to McDonald's and get a happy meal and chicken nuggets. And I remember saying to my friend once, they should just put the chicken nuggets in the happy meal and charge more. And I would pay more for a happy meal with nuggets. And eventually they did. Uh because obviously I wasn't the only one with that great idea. And so I would go to McDonald's and I would buy a happy meal. The offer was the Happy Meal. It was in a bag, it was in a box, actually. Junior burger, fries and a coke, chicken, nuggets, and a little toy. That was the offer. Right? Now, if someone goes and buys junior burger and a Coke, McDonald's make a certain margin. They make more margin, they make probably most of their margin out of the fries and the Coke, right? So that they make more margin if you buy the junior burger, the Coke, and the fries. That's why a Happy Meal is like maybe like 10 cents more expensive than just a junior burger and a Coke, where you can get the fries for like an extra 10 cents, and we give you this little toy and we wrap it up in a plastic thing, which like cost us a cent, right, at scale. They're making more margin if you buy all three, but they know from experience people don't buy all three. So they packaged it up into a new offer called the Happy Meal, which was revolutionary, and they sold a gazillion of them every week, right? Then they added the nuggets, put the price up a little bit, still maintain their margins. So that's what creating an offer means. It's like, let's not sell websites, SEO, and a care plan, let's turn that into an offer. We call them growth plans here, which include, you know, we do whatever needs to happen on your website to make it convert, we drive traffic to your website and we make it convert. We make that traffic convert. Well, a care plan is free at that point. You're not even paying for a care plan because that's just a given. Of course we're going to keep your website up to date and secure and backed up and all that kind of stuff. We have to because we need your website to convert. So instantly, you're not selling care plans for 150 bucks a month where everyone else is giving them away for 30 bucks a month and you're just competing on price. Your care plans are free because they're part of your growth plan. Right? And you're not selling websites for six grand that aren't going to go anywhere and aren't going to get any traffic. You're selling a growth plan. So let me give you a real example here. One of our Mavericks Club members recently ran a call with a client, sold paid discovery off that call for I think $1,200, didn't call it paid discovery, call it a digital roadmap session. It's part of what we teach in the paid discovery method. After that paid discovery session, what he thought was going to be a client that might spend $3,000 on a website, after paid discovery, he sold them a $1,600 a month engagement for 12 months. Now that's over $18,000 a year from a client that he thought was going to spend $3,000 on a website because he repackaged what he does into a more compelling offer. The client didn't want a $3,000 website. The client wants support and collaboration for the next 12 months to actually get an outcome. That's what the client wants. They just think that a website is going to get them that. And you and I both know that it's probably not. The website on its own is not going to get them the results they want. It's the combination. The website is just a vehicle to convert traffic into whatever they want to convert it into. Leads, donations, talent, recruits, employees, customers, clients, whatever. Right? E-commerce websites are just a vehicle to turn traffic into customers. Right? Call, booking, appointment funnels are just a vehicle to turn traffic into clients. Recruitment funnels are just a vehicle to turn traffic into recruits. Okay? Donation websites are just a vehicle to turn traffic into donors. So the website on its own is not going to get them what they want. And that's why repackaging what you do into a more compelling offer is probably the most impactful thing you can do to increase your ability to generate more revenue from clients and at the same time add more value to those clients. Jeremy from Avrix Club said over the next 12 months, I can add way more value to this client because they're paying me $1,600 a month. Versus three grand for a website that we try and you know jam into a three-week sprint to get it done so we can get paid, hand it over, and then what? Nothing. Nothing changes for the client, no impact. They've got this website that does nothing, and they go, well, that was a waste of time. I'm not going to refer you because it didn't change my business. It didn't get me the outcome. So, recap the three things that you can do this afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, to become a better salesperson, add more value to your client, generate more revenue, and actually do a better job for your client is one, ask lots of questions. Two, get permission to move forward in the conversation. That gets buy-in from them and it makes it a collaboration. And three, don't sell services, create a great offer. Make sense? Okay. So, hey, if this has been helpful, by the way, we would love it if you would subscribe, uh, share the podcast with anyone that you might think might benefit from it. I'm sure you know someone right now that might benefit from hearing this conversation. If you do, this is how podcasts grow. Share it with them, tell them about it. It might just be transformational for them. You probably discovered this podcast because someone shared it with you. So uh please, that's all we ask is that you share it with people that you think might uh benefit from listening to this and also subscribe so that you get the next episode when we launch it. All right, now I did promise you that I was going to tell you who I think you should follow right now and a book that you should read. The one gentleman that I'm following online right now, pretty much to the exclusion of all others, is a gentleman by the name of Alex Hormozy. You may have heard of him. He is everywhere over the internet. He comes from the gym uh um world. He had a series of gyms when he was very young. He then figured out how to make profitable gyms, he figured out how to turn a gym into a profitable gym. He then started teaching other gyms how to do it. The first year that he was that he launched his actual program, he got tired of traveling around the country and uh turning gyms around in person, so he started doing it online. And the first year of his program, gym launch, he uh they generated something ridiculous, like $27 million in revenue and took home 18 of it in profit. It was like, and they were like 28 years old, him and his his uh his wife, Layla. Ridiculous success. Anyway, he the thing I like about Alex is that he has nothing to sell. He's got a fantastic book called $100 Million Dollar Offers. His new book, $100 Million Dollar Leads, is due out soon. $100 Million Dollar Offers has been out for a while. It's amazing. You should totally read it. And he has nothing to sell. He has no courses, no mastermind, no coaching program. He's got a company called Acquisition.com, and what they do is they partner with companies doing, I think at the moment it's three million dollars a year in revenue. They partner with companies doing three million a year in revenue, they help them scale and they take equity in those companies. So he's trying to build a $1 billion uh company by partnering with other companies. So similar to uh Warren Buffett's model at um Berkshire Hathaway, um, Alex Hormozy is kind of modeling it on that. Uh so he has no courses. If you buy $100 million offers, uh you'll get access to his great course at Acquisition.com. In fact, you can just go to Acquisition.com and do a fantastic course he's got there on helping you craft an offer. And if you want someone to help you implement some of this stuff into your agency, then we're probably the right people to help you. We have a few programs that can help you generate more revenue, uh, improve your processes and the way that you deliver services to clients and help you grow your team. Um so feel free to reach out to us, support at agencymaverics.com if you want some help implementing this stuff into your agency. All right, well, hey, I know we call this the agency hour. I think we're at about 35 minutes now. Uh, so you've got another 25 minutes to hang out and reflect. Give yourself the full hour to just think about your agency and what your plan is, and what are the three things that you're going to do as a result of listening to this episode? One, practice asking more questions. Two, get permission from your prospects to move forward in the conversation and make it a collaborative conversation. And three, stop selling websites, SEO, and care plans because they're commodities. It's a race to the bottom on pricing. And frankly, nobody cares about them. What they care about is what those things deliver, which is more what? Leads, recruits, clients, donations, whatever it is. Okay? So ask lots of questions, get permission to move forward, and don't sell services, create a great offer. Hey, I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I have. I have to admit also, it was a bit weird me just recording an episode of this podcast by myself talking about sales. I still get a bit weird about it, right? Because I know that a lot of people are going to listen to the first few minutes of this episode and go, I'm not going to listen to that because it's just Troy, you know, banging on about sales again because he wants us to make more money and he wants us to buy his programs and he's just a shark. And, you know, that's fine, whatever. That tells me more about their mindset than anything because they're obviously still afraid to engage in this conversation. But I have to admit, it's still kind of when I saw this come up in my schedule, I was like, ugh, I'm still I'm gonna, you know, talk for 40 minutes on sales on my own. It still made me feel a little weird because I'd I genuinely want people to think that I'm here to help them, not sell them stuff. And I know me having a conversation about sales is kind of maybe going to come across as the I'm just here to pitch you guys and get you into our programs. And you know, I can't do anything about that. I can't control what you think or what you feel. All I can control is what I give you guys and how I try and help you. So I'm trying to be true to that and trying to be authentic with that, and how you guys receive it is entirely up to you. So anyway, I'd love to hear your feedback. Leave us some comments wherever you're listening to this uh or leave us a review, or just hit us up, support at agencymavericks.com, and tell us what you'd like to learn about more on the podcast. And I look forward to seeing you next week. I think we've got one more episode that we are publishing this year before I take a few weeks off and go camping with the kids. Um, so we'll see you next week and then we'll see you in 2023. I hope you're having a great week and I hope you're enjoying whatever it is you're working on. I'll talk to you again next week. Until then, I'm Troy Dean. Bye for now.