We're really talking about like getting out of the way, right? I mean, it's really about like letting go and just saying, you know what? Like, I care about this business. I I really want it to do well. But like if if I'm the bottleneck, then like it's just really limiting, right? And it's also really draining and tiring and stressful. And like, you know, when you bring on a white label partner or team members or and all of that, there's just so much potential there. Welcome to the agency hour podcast, where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week we're joined by Monique Duhuragia, founder and CEO of A2 Institute. In this episode, we dive into what creativity might look like in the future, how you can utilize and leverage white label partners to create your time, how to become a decision-making team, and when it's practical to reach out to a white label partner. If you're looking to scale, it doesn't matter whether you're just starting a new business or if you're a seasoned agency with the whole team supporting you. This episode is for you. I'm Johnny Flash. Stay with us. Hey Manish, how's it going?

Hey Johnny, I'm doing fantastic. Uh thank you for having me again. Uh again, I know I'm excited to be excited to speak with you.

Like it's like the highlight of my week. I get to talk to Manish, and I always learn so much when I get to hang out with you. And you are just you're very generous with your time and your wisdom. And so I just I'm looking forward to it. Um, I I would love to uh just hear anything that you've been up to, anything that's uh anything just kind of on the side, doesn't even have to be work-related, but would love to just hear what you've been up to.

Uh I think you know my my deep interest and uh is is more about uh towards the philosophy, uh towards psychology and spirituality. There are three areas are my deep interest uh outside of the work. So I'm a deep thinker, uh and uh whenever I kind of get uh time, you know, kind of go in a wandering state and uh uh think a lot about like you know uh so we still don't fully understand, you know, creativity and intelligence and specifically in the in the era of AI. So right now I've been kind of like thinking a lot, reading a lot around like you know the human mind and and the potential of AI, what's what it is going to uh look like, right? And uh so those are the areas where definitely, you know, I'm more uh worried and and it's it's more about like you know uh we we literally sometimes feel like you know we are kind of in a vicious circle, right? If you really look at your day, uh you know, you wake up in the morning and then you have things lined up uh till the like you know you kind of like crash into the bed, right? And where are you getting time for yourself, right? Where are you getting time to just think where you are just by yourself, you are not doing anything, and you are literally uh thinking something, and you are literally in the state of brainstorming, not related to you know just business, but in general about life, right? So uh I'll always like you know, uh wonder I I try to find time into that, so that I have some time every day, which is kind of like I'm my me time, right?

Uh yeah, yeah, because when we have our time maxed out, right? We kind of end up becoming like a rat in a wheel where we're just running and running and running to keep this thing spinning, and we don't have the room for the creativity and the you know, just uh reflection and all those things that like we all need, even though we sometimes think we can get away without it. We think we can work 80 hours and it's not gonna kill us, but like it's gonna wear us down, right? And um, so I yeah, I think you're I think you're totally right about that, you know, in terms of just kind of being able to self-reflect. I know a lot of the uh agency owners that I'm coaching and I talk with and so forth, like they kind of oftentimes feel like they're working six, seven days a week, they're missing family time, like they can't hardly put their computer down. They definitely can't sometimes go on a vacation without their computer or their work following them, worried that everything's gonna melt down if they don't like work all the time. Um, and of course, in Mavericks, we're we're coaching them like to have boundaries and all those things. But you know, I think that is a real challenge of just trying to like free up your time and and let go and empower people and all that. And so I'm kind of curious for you, you know, thinking about like those agency owners like in and trying to free up their time, like thoughts that you have on that.

Yeah, that's a great really great point. And you know, uh that is something I'm personally obsessed about for more than one and a half year, you know. I started uh uh realizing one and a half year ago that okay, how can I have more control on my time? How can I free up my time? I think you know, one and a half year ago I read something very interesting and which kind of uh stuck into my mind is like kind of like you know, uh B calendars are creativity killers, right? It literally kills your creativity because our minds are wired in a way where when you know that okay, you have things lined up, right? If you have like five meetings on your calendar, then your mind will always start thinking about that. I don't know if you absorb that or not, but uh for instance, if you have you know uh a meeting at noon, then you will start thinking about it from like you know from morning itself, you will start planning your day accordingly, and pretty much like previous 30 hours 30 minutes, which is like from 11:30 to 12, and pretty much like post 30 minutes, you will end up doing nothing because all you have in your mind is like okay, I have a meeting at 12, right? So, and imagine, like you know, if you have five of such meetings in a day, right? Pretty much like those five hours of meeting and another like couple of hours, you know, just like uh blocking of your mind, uh, which is thinking about those meetings, it's kind of like kills another couple of hours as well, right? So that kind of like uh you know uh got me to the point where okay, how can I free up my time? And obviously, like you know, if you want to free up your time, you have to delegate, right? You and which is the most difficult thing, right? When you are a kind of a you believe in perfection, you know, you when you do things by yourself, you don't just usually trust someone very easily, not because you don't trust them, but just because uh you are so much obsessed about doing things in a very, very particular way, right? Which you cannot anticipate. And you care a lot, yeah. You care a lot, right? Right, with all good intentions, you care more than yeah, you with all good intentions, right? So uh, but that kind of like you know, more of a like emotional angle where you are becoming an obstacle for your growth, right? So I think you know uh that's definitely a struggle, that's definitely a challenge which I have been to as well. But how I kind of like you know got over that challenge where I have a pretty much a lot of free time right now, because I realize that you know when you are too much busy, you are actually working in your business. But when you free up your time and start working, you know, on yourself, and when you start having a free up your time, then you are actually working on your business, right? Because yeah, if you have a free time, then you will think like hundreds of other ways to how to scale and grow your agency business, like maybe going after a different market, maybe introducing a new service, maybe changing a business model, maybe doing something new, right? So there are believe me, like you know, ever since I freed up my time, I have been getting more busy than I was used to be earlier, but now I'm actually getting busy on things which I really want to do it, right? Which are like working on business, not working in business, right? Obviously, I've been doing this like since last 10, 12 years, so it took me a longer to get there, but at some point you have to start.

Yeah, and I was just gonna say, what you know, the the the pushback that I get from some agency owners or even people working in an agency, maybe they're not the owner, maybe they're kind of in the leadership team or whatever, you know, is that like, hey, my team is already like maxed at capacity, like I can't slow down because if I don't make sure these plates are all spinning, like they're gonna fall on the floor because my team's maxed out. I don't know what to do. Like, I feel like I'm at my max capacity. Um, and and so like how do you kind of like, you know, with that that response, like how do you kind of uh steer them in the right direction?

Yeah, uh you did you definitely don't want to uh stop your growth. So, right? Uh when it comes to bandwidth, obviously the first thing comes to you need more people, right? So obviously traditionally you can hire someone full-time, or there are other options like you know, you can hire a freelancer, or you can hire a contractor, or you could have a strategic white-level partnership, just like you know how we are uh at E2M what we do with agencies, right? So I think you know you really want to figure that out. Like, okay, is that a temporary bandwidth issue, or is that the permanent bandwidth issues, right? And and regardless of that, you really want to uh have a someone strategic who is available on time, right? So uh there are pros and cons of working with everything, there are pros and cons of working with you know uh having full-time employees, uh contractors, freelancers, right? If you have an inconsistent volume, having full-time uh employees won't make sense, right? Uh if you like kind of like you know, uh working, if you think like, okay, I need more reliability, right? Uh where I can have a team on demand when I want, then freelancer or contractor might be a trouble, specifically freelancer, because then they are you know occupied working with so many different projects and everything, right? And then contractors are usually blocked in a certain amount of time, right? So that's where you definitely it's not something you know I'm saying because we that's what we do, but I have seen that you know agencies coming to us that hey, you know, we have burned with our hands and uh with like you know these kind of experiences, and then they want to try a white-level partnership. So that's definitely a way to go when you want to like you know max at capacity. It is just like that. What you really want to make sure that, you know, uh, in order to give the consistent experiences to your clients, you really want to communicate uh your requirements, you know, your specifics and your challenges to white-level partners. So they kind of like you know become a part of your team, and they don't look like you know, just another like outside of team, right? So you really want to work with a white-level partner who want to adapt your processes, want to be a part of your project collaboration tool, who pretty much like you know, become a part of your team overnight, and you know, just plug and play into your agency and literally scale your agency overnight and solve the bandwidth issues overnight.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that can work for you know a business of any size, right? Because someone just starting out, you know, maybe they don't want to have to do all the things. They can have a white label partner like E2M do the work. Um, it could be an agency that has some contractors or team members that like get sometimes they just there's too much, there's there's not enough bandwidth for all the stuff coming in. They've got that partner, and then even larger agencies, I think it works really well because it's just sort of this like scalable component of your business, right? That you can kind of uh utilize at when stuff gets to be crazy. So I I I love that, and I think I think we're on the same page with that. That's why I love just talking with you. And I know a lot of our Mavericks are using E2M because it's just a great service, you know.

Yeah, I think you know, regardless of the size, you know, I'll I'll kind of classify that thing, right? That if you are just starting an agency owner, you know, uh Max and we were talking just earlier about it as well. That uh let's say if someone is just starting out and you are figuring out like at what point you really want to try out white-level partnership, then think like that. If you are starting out, it actually makes more sense because then you actually need multiple expertise. For instance, like you know, if you have a website project, then you need a designer, and then you know you need a front-end developer, backend developer, you need a QA analyst for quality analyst, you need a server guy to launch websites. So technically, you are talking about hiring five different people, but then you know if you are working with an experienced white-level partner and they have all this figured it out, so you don't have to find five different people, right? So I think as soon as you as long as you have a project on board, you really want to think about it that okay, I really want to get this entire project done from one team where they just get it done, right? And if you are like meat size to large size agency, then also you know, usually a lot of time it happens when we work with like meet to large size agencies, then they have a team of like project managers, account managers, and sometimes they have designers as well, and all they want is like okay, a development team because they feel like okay, we really want to be a front-facing to clients, right? We we have a like you know, sales figured out, we have a really good project management team. In fact, we have a designer as well. Now development is something is like very time consuming, and we are having a hard time to find uh you know different tech expertise in the constantly evolving tech, right? Because sometimes you've got a project, client says, Okay, I need a WordPress website, then you need a WordPress developer, and tomorrow a client says, I need an e-commerce website in Shopify, so you need a Shopify developer. So you don't want to go and hire that developer, right? Instead, if you have a strategic partnership, then they have all these kind of like text pool resources, so you can utilize them uh really, really well. So to answer your question, yeah, regardless of the size, you know, you can leverage white level partnership to free up your time. And I think you know, if I really want to uh, you know, I use this framework to free up my time, right? So there is a one thing if you really want to, if you are specifically if you're a single agency owner, right? I want you to think about it. You cannot become rich or you cannot create a wealth by renting your time. Okay, it is something where you really want to invest your time into something creating, right? You don't when I say creating doesn't mean your clients' projects, clients' websites, right? Uh, it has to be something like you know, you should be getting paid for something which you are spending time on, where you will get a return of that time for a very longer period of time, right? And so you really want to make sure that you know you are not like occupied or completely uh in your business where if you just take a week off and then you know everything collapse, right? Then you are definitely in a in a bad situation, and that's not gonna help you uh you know get move the needle and get to the next stage. You just have to figure out, like, you know, I have to find out, and the best way you know uh to free up your time is remember this framework is you know, find someone who loves to do what you hate to do, right? So so think like that, you know. Uh when agencies come to us being our you know, as and they are like, you know, we are burned out, we don't have a time to, we really want to focus on growing in sales, uh scaling our agency. You know, we have a uh some of the agencies we work from a Mavericks community, and they say our coaches are helping us a lot. We have a lot of great strategies in our place, we just need to free up our time, and we we hate to you know do all this work. And and and guess what? We tell them that hey, we we love to do it actually. So find someone who loves to do what you hate to do, and then you know you're creating a true living win because it's not something that you want to free up your time because you literally hate to do, right? You really care for your clients with all good intentions. Uh, you want to keep things on your hand because you care for your clients, you really want to deliver the quality things, but I mean you have some sort of like threshold, right? You cannot do all that alone. You cannot like have hundreds of projects of going on if it's just you. You definitely need a team to scale.

Yeah. And I think you know, we often make the mistake we like bring on a white label partner like E2M or we hire someone or whatever we do, and and we think like, oh, they're just gonna like suddenly like do everything the way that we want them to do, like read our mind, you know, kind of know all the things that need to happen. And like we're kind of asking for failure, like when that I I think we kind of ask for failure when that happens because it's like who can go into anywhere and know, I mean, imagine like any other situation, right? Like, I you know, I like to grill on the on the I like to cook food on the grill, right? But like I could get if I went and got a job as like the the chef in the back doing the grilling at the place, like I might not make the burgers or the chicken or whatever the thing is the way that they want it made there, even though like I think it tastes pretty good and it's the way I do it, right? It's like I would need some direction on like, you know, this is this is how we usually do it, or these are the expectations, or these are the boundaries, or these are the best practices that have worked well on whatever, right? Yeah, and so it's like I don't know why we think we can just hire someone and then like everything just magically solves itself, right?

That's a really good point. And you know, from my personal experience, uh this is a very common uh you know situations we see uh not all the times, but sometimes where you know agencies uh think that okay, once we have a white level partner and they they think like everything is going to be really, really great. So I think you know, a couple of uh my experiences I would like to share how to make it like win-win, right?

Yeah.

So first of all, like think like that, you know, uh when you really want to delegate, right? You really want to shift the mindset, right? That you really want to understand that you are delegating to someone who is not you, who is not going to do the exact thing just like you, right? The whole idea of delegating is like you know, freeing up your time, right? So specifically if you are a perfectionist, right? If you believe like everything has to be like you know perfect, right? And that's how I was, and I still I am, right? Uh, but it's like my my my core background is in SEO, right? So when I actually uh started uh getting off from SEO, you know, I was handing over uh projects to SEO team, I was like, okay, or even like when early days when I was hiring for our company, you know, I always tried to find someone who is exactly like me, and that was the biggest mistake I was making, right? Because think like that you really want to create a diverse team because you are already there, you really want to hire people who come with different ideas, although they are not as perfect as like you, but at least you know they are helping you to scale your business, right? And you are having a diversity in the team. So I think one of the first things you really want to have the mindset that okay, hey, they are not exactly going to do exactly how I want. However, I can put together my processes, I can tell them that hey, these are the obvious things I don't want to make mistakes around, these are the things I really want to take care of it, right? And the best thing I would do it like, hey, this is the recent love. For instance, if you are you know handing over a website development project or an SEO campaign, then the best thing you know, I always advise agency owners that tell your white-level team that hey, this is the last website I developed, this is how exactly I want you to do it, right? So then you are giving them something to look at that what your standards look like. If you have your standards, processes, that's super easy. Just tell them, but you cannot expect them to read your mind and do it like how you are doing without providing them any information. You can just you cannot just tell them that hey, here is the design, here's the scope of work. Go ahead and do it. You have to tell them that hey, I use Alimentor as a builder or DV as a builder, you know, I want to make sure that you use the same builder. I use X number of plugins. So at least the most common things you really have to tell them to make sure they are on the same page. And despite doing all these things, you know, you really want to make sure there is always a learning curve when you are hiring, you know, a new team, right? And think like that, there will be a chances of a failure when you are trying something new, at least one person. So then you are mentally ready that okay, if something goes wrong, okay, we'll fix it, right? But the damage has not should not be done at too much, right? And sometimes it happens, like you know, you have had a really, really bad experience working with white-level partner, and oftentimes it happens, you know, agencies come to us and say that hey, we have burned our hands and like that. And I just tell them one thing, you know, if you went out to the restaurant, if you tried something, you know, tried a dish and you didn't like like it, that doesn't mean you stopped going out to the restaurants. Obviously, either you will try a different dish in the same restaurant or you go to the next restaurant, but you will not stop trying, stop, no, you'll not stop going to the restaurants, right? It's kind of like that.

So sometimes you might have to let me just add on to that because I think you it's it's a perfect uh analogy, what you said, and I think to take it one step further, sometimes we have the bad experience at the restaurant, and we don't, we don't then go into the back of the restaurant and say, I'm gonna cook it the way that it needs to be done, and I'm just gonna, you know, because it's our tendency, like it doesn't go quite right. And then we just try to like yank it back or fix it ourselves, which then doesn't then just means we're stuck fixing it all the time, right? Because we haven't empowered whoever to do it, right? It's like if someone, even if someone has E2M do something and something doesn't go quite exactly the way they want it, if they just go and like fix and do the thing themselves, like you and your team don't learn anything from that, right? And just like if I if I yank something from one of my team members, they're not learning about what they did right or how they could have done it better because I just like jumped in and solved it, right? Which does it's kind of short circuits the learning and the like empowering, right?

Yes. So here the communication is the key, right? That the communication and collaboration is the key, that okay, if something goes really wrong, you really want to communicate loudly about it, make the team aware about it. It shouldn't be like where you assume that oh this team is not capable at all, right? Because sometimes it's just the communication gap, right? Uh sometimes when you actually get on the call, then you realize that okay, uh, you know, it it was just about the communication. So I think you know, initially you really want to have a clear mindset that hey, I'll have to spend some time, or someone from my team has to spend some time with this team to make them understand how we want things to be done. And and the best way, like I say it, is either you just tell show them what do have what you have done so they know exactly how you want, or just provide them any supporting documents, processes, SOPs, you have it. Or if you don't have it, then you know sometimes use their processes and SOPs. So a lot of time agencies, startup agencies come to us and they say that hey, you know, we want you to use the best practices. We don't have SOPs, and we tell them, Hey, we have our own processes, why don't you use them? So you can actually leverage their resources as well when you are working with experienced team like us, right? So it's just about like making your mindset that hey, you are trying something new. It's kind of like you know, in general in life, in business, when you try something new, there is always a chance of failure, right? But when you know, okay, I'm trying something new, I might fail. Then at least when you fail, you won't feel back. You you know that okay, I knew it, that there was a 1% chance of fail. But then you always think you know, what to do, make sure to minimize that failure, right? And it's always an initial time, right? Uh then once you are in sync with the team, then it just feels like you know they are a part of the team.

Yeah, and if you're doing all this on your own, you know, trying to like just isolated, trying to figure it out, like it's really hard, right? And I think that's why community is huge, right? Because, you know, if you're around other agency owners, if you're you know kind of learning best practices in the industry, and you're not just trying to like, because the path is, you know, we were talking before we started even pushing record, like the path to like running an agency, it's pretty well-worn. It's not like you're trying to like, you know, get the first spaceship to to Saturn or something, and you and you're trying to like chart a path that's like you know, never been done before and getting a person to Saturn or something, right? Like this is a well-worn path. And so I think when we make the mistake of like trying to go it our own way or try to just figure it all out, like you can do that, but like there you don't have to, right? Like you can be in community, you can be in coaching, you can be in training, you can go to live events. Like there's so many things that you can do to like kind of surround yourself. And I would say, um, you know, I when I was younger, I'd played video games and there was this game Mario Kart, and you'd play Mario Kart, and there's like these shortcuts, right? Where like you can go the normal track way, but then there's like if you go through the bush or you jump up this thing, you like cut off half the track and you like shortcut, right? And I think when you're in community, like that's just kind of a natural outflow that that helps you in all of these things that we're talking about, right?

Yeah, community is the best thing, you know. I think you know, here we are more talking about that, you know, when we say that, okay, when you really want to do it, talk to someone who has already done it, right? So oftentimes it happens, you know, when agencies come to us and they say, Hey, we we don't know like you know how to work with your team, and then we guide them, this is how we do it, and then we let them speak up with our other agency clients as well. Because uh, you know, we have a community of like over 200 agencies, and now one of the things which we are starting, you know, newly is like we are starting a Slack channel for all of our clients where they will be getting you know interacting with each other. It's kind of like you know, uh the agencies will get help from each other, just like questions about general about agency, right? And then there is a community like you know, agency mavericks as well, so where you can actually talk to other peers that hey, you know, I'm trying to, I really want to free up my time, I want to really hire you know a team, and how do you guys work with them, right? So that gets you a validation. Sometimes you can use their tools, processes, practices as is to make it successful. It it oftentimes it happens, you know, agencies come to us, then they say that hey, heard we heard about you from this agency, they are using you. We need exact team, we need exact processes, and it obviously makes successful as well. So I think you know communication is just uh I I so agree with you, Johnny, that you know, agency kind of like owner's life is very much isolated, right? And if you are a part of community, then you always uh have someone to go after and someone to talk with and someone to take at least their opinion. And and then the the the best thing about you know uh specifically agency Mavericks community, I have seen everyone super super helping people, you know. The sessions which I actually have seen uh you know attended in live events, the the other agency owners are actually showcasing their blueprint, like how they are exactly running agency, how they have set up their clickup, right? Uh, which is super super useful for other agency owners because then they don't have to figure out uh what the other agency owners have already done it, you know. They just they just have to mimic it to make it like more easy for them.

Yeah, yeah. No, and I think I think it's huge. And you've been you've been a huge just supporter and fan. I just have to say thank you because you've just you've come alongside and you've kind of like uh added jet fuel to like what we're doing with agency mavericks and uh trying to help agency owners. And I know in that way, like we're very aligned in terms of like what you're trying to do and who you're trying to help, and we're trying to do the same thing, you know. And so I I just so appreciate that about you. Um and and while we're talking about the live events, I'm just gonna drop in. You know, we've got our uh, as you know, our our event in Australia on the Gold Coast uh in June. It's gonna be June 17th and 19th. It's gonna be an amazing live event. Um, and good portion of our team and Troy are gonna be there and it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome. A lot of Mavericks will be there. Um, and we do have opportunities for those not in Mavericks to come and attend and just get to learn and grow their agency, and it's gonna be awesome. And then our our event in the United States, which I'm super excited about too, will be uh in San Diego in October, um, in mid-October, and that's gonna be fantastic. And I'm hoping that you and I get to hang out again and and and do fun stuff. So lots of great ways uh to just kind of connect and attend a live event. You can go to agencymaveric.com to get all the details. I'm sure we'll have it in the show notes as well. But um, as we're kind of wrapping up here, um, you know, anything else, Manish, that you want to just sort of uh gold nuggets that you want to drop in here, just in terms of as we're talking about like just kind of we're really talking about like getting out of the way, right? I mean, it's really about like letting go and just saying, you know what, like I care about this business, I I really want it to do well, but like if if I'm the bottleneck, if I'm the you know, chief uh bottle washer and have to do all the things, then like it's just really limiting, right? And it's also really draining and tiring and stressful, and like you know, when you bring on a white label partner or team members or and all of that, like you there's just so much potential there, and so just kind of any sort of final thoughts with all of that.

I I think you know you won't realize something until you have it, right? So uh freedom is some sort of like that. Freedom is something you will only realize the potential of freedom when you will get it, right? So I'm not saying you know it might not be possible for everyone to get it overnight, but at least you can start working towards that, right? So if you are if you are like you know working let's say 60 hours a day, just figure out how to take it to 40 hours, right? If you are doing like 40 hours a week, figure out how to take it like to 30 hours and then 20 hours, right? And then you will really really start seeing the importance of those 10 hours. That you know how how much you know that free up freedom time of 10 hours is gonna help you not only help you grow your agency, but actually they will those 10 hours will help you think clearly because you know then you will start making a lot of great decisions because think like that, you know, agent as an agency owner, you are actually a decision maker machine, right? You have to make a lot of decisions, and right now, if you are too much busy, how are you gonna make thoughtful decisions, right? So, uh in in decision making, you know, there is always some uh in in in in you know psychology it says like second order second order thinking. Second order thinking is like when you are taking any decision, you always think about consequences of after taking the decision, right? But okay, if I'm taking this decision, what's next? And then you start thinking about the next, not exactly about the decision, right? So those are the things that require a lot of time to think clearly. So I would uh say, like, you know, think like that. Uh DZ calendars are creativity killers, right? Your goal is to free up your time. How to free up your time, find someone who loves to do what you hate to do, and when you get you know a freedom, remember you are gonna get into a boredom stage initially, right? But don't worry, like you know, boredom will you know get you to the creativity stage again. You know, creativity will help you to be more productive, right? But that productivity will lead to another level of growth as well. So I would say, like, you know, uh 2024, we still have like 10 months. The number one goal of your as an agency owner must be like you know, freeing up your time, uh, which will really really help you to level up not only your agency, but you will see a personal growth, and you know, I definitely see uh increase your mental health awareness as well, right? So that's the something I would highly, highly recommend to everyone.

Wow, wow, ladies and gentlemen, if you listened all the way to the end, you got the gold nuggets right there. Uh that was just so good. What a great uh wrap-up to this, Manish. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much. Um, and I'm looking forward to hanging out with you again soon.

Absolutely, John. Yeah, I look forward to it. Thank you so much for having me again. I really uh appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour podcast, and a huge thanks to Manish for joining us. I always love catching up with Manish, and he's so generous with his insights and wisdom, and always catch myself taking notes throughout our conversations. Uh, Manish is gonna be at our live event in MAPCOM in October, too, so I can't wait to catch up with him in person. Okay, folks, remember to find someone who loves to do what you hate to do. And of course, please don't forget to subscribe and please share this with anyone you think may need to hear it. I'm Johnny Flash. Let's get to work.