Any good account manager should come fully loaded, ready to roll. It shouldn't matter how organized your house is or how process driven you are. They're going to come in and make it better.

Welcome to the Agency Hour Podcast, where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week we're joined by Taylor McMaster, founder of Dot and Company. And today we're talking about all of the challenges that agencies face when it comes to account management. You know what I'm talking about. We explore the importance of having the right person in the right seat so that you can let go, why you don't need to get your house in order before hiring an account manager, and how you compare an account manager and a white label developer or designer to take the majority of your work off your plate. If you're looking for some agency experts to help you focus on delivering an excellent experience for your clients, this episode is for you. I'm Johnny Flash. Stay with us. Hey Taylor, how's it going?

Good, Johnny. Thanks for having me on the show.

Yeah, so excited to have you. So um just give everyone a little bit of a quick background on just what what you do, what your agency does. Sure.

So we are dot and co. We provide agencies with full service client account management services. So essentially we take care of your clients for you so you don't have to.

Love it. Love it. Yeah, I was just talking to some agency owners the other day, and they were saying that they were on their third, I think they had gone through three account managers and they hadn't worked out. So I think you're you're probably the answer to that uh the that problem. What are some of the challenges that you do see when when you know agencies are trying to like place an account manager?

Yeah, honestly, there's so many. And so we've been doing this for five years, exclusively working with agencies doing account management. And it's so funny. The the things that we see come up are happening across pretty much every agency. So there's kind of a couple different situations. So there's the agency who's small and they're getting started, they're starting to grow. And in that case, the agency owner is doing all the account management. So they are not only on that, you know, right? Yeah, they're not only selling the client to work with the agency, they are then taking that client and managing the whole relationship. So naturally, those agencies, the agency owner gets stuck in the weeds, right? And they can't focus on biz dev, they can't grow the agency. So there's that situation where they need somebody who they trust, they need somebody who can actually speak to marketing, who can actually build relationships while also talking about strategy. They need somebody to really be able to step in and remove them, right? And in order to get somebody who can actually remove you, they kind of need to be a unicorn. They need to be able to speak to clients and marketing. And then there's kind of on the other side of the spectrum the bigger agencies who are growing really fast at a pace that they can't keep up with hiring. Because at any part of the spectrum, you understand how hard it is to hire a really good account manager. And so bigger agencies will come to us because they just can't keep up with the pace they need to hire for. So yeah, we kind of see it all, everything from the small agencies to the big ones. But essentially, agencies come to us because we are the experts. We're the only ones in the space who really only focus on account management. So we can kind of come in and serve whatever size agency that it is.

Yeah, love that. Love that. And when they bring on one of your account managers, is it like is there um options for like part-time or full-time, or like how does that work?

Yeah. So when we started the agency, it was fully fractional. So what I realized was all of the people in my network were growing agencies, they were scaling, but they didn't necessarily want to bring somebody on full time. It was like the chicken or the egg thing, like you and I were talking about offline. It was um, you know, do you hire somebody full time or do you um, you know, start to manage the clients on your own and then grow big enough so that you can hire somebody? Where is that sweet spot? And so I was able to kind of come in right in the middle and say, look, it look, you don't need to go hire somebody full-time. I can do this part-time. And that's kind of where the fractional model came in. Um, but over the years, we've kind of figured out how to give full-time support for agencies so that they don't need to go out and have to hire anybody full-time so we can kind of grow with them. So as they kind of get started, we might be more fractional. And then as they grow and scale, they need more full-time support. So we can kind of serve them in that way.

Love it. Love it. That's huge. That's great. Um, and uh on a side note, because I'm I'm just kind of curious, I know you have like a uh almost a newborn, like a an infant and everything with your 10 month old. Like, how do you juggle managing 50 account managers for all these different agencies and being a mom and and all of that? Like I would I I'm because I think a lot of our agency owners, that's a reality, right? Like they're they've got small kids, they're trying to do mom or dad, they're trying to run a business, they're trying to manage a team. Like it's a lot, right? Um, and so I I know it's a little bit off topic, but I would love to just hear like a little bit about that.

This is my favorite question because honestly, Johnny, nobody asks, which is um so interesting because I think most people who go into business for themselves have this vision of I want to be home with my kids and my family, or I want to travel, I want time freedom. But so many people get into business and they don't actually go after those goals. They don't actually focus on building a business that serves the time freedom that they really want. And for me, that was always the vision. I knew I wanted to have a family, I knew I wanted to have time. So I intentionally built my business in a way that I could kind of grow it that way. And I practice what I preach. I actually have account managers who manage our clients. I have managers internally, I have executive assistants. And so I'm responsible for a sliver of the piece of our business that is going to move the needle, but the rest of it is take care of taken care of by my team. So right now I work two days a week. Um, I take meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays. My days are full, but I only schedule meetings those two days. The other, you know, call it two to three working days. I only check in a little bit, but I really lean in and trust my team. And we have a lot of systems and processes, and um, I'm able to really step away from the business.

Love it. Awesome. And just for everybody listening, I'm not sure what day this gets published, but we are recording this on a Thursday. So she's practicing what she preaches. Um, just for everybody who's listening, because they're like, wait, this came out on whatever day. So cool. Love that. Yeah, because I think I think that is like a reality. I think people start their business, like you said, they want to have like, you know, freedom or more time with the family and stuff. And then it's easy to get like the feeling of like being the rat in the wheel where you can't get out, and you're, you know, we're I'm I'm often coaching folks that are like, they're working late into the night or on the weekends or this and that. I'm like, you're on the verge of burnout and you don't even realize it, you know, or your or your family falling apart because you're not creating boundaries, you're not delegating. And I think sometimes as agency owners, we can be our own worst enemy in the sense that like we're oftentimes like perfectionists or want things to be just so. And so like we have trouble letting go of things, you know, um, that I think we need to let go of in order to empower, you know. So I think that that's a common issue with agency owners, which I'm sure you could probably speak to just in terms of like placing an account manager, someone like good intentioned wants the account manager, right? But maybe like you, yeah, I'm sure you often have to, your team has to encourage them to like let go of some stuff. Talk a little bit about that.

Oh my gosh, Johnny. This is the biggest thing, the biggest hurdle that we have to help agency owners get over is it's not letting go of control because that just feels so not that just doesn't feel good to say, right? Like letting go of control because that's not what it is. Really how I look at it is ensuring that you have the right person in the right seat who you trust to do a really good job. And once you see that they're doing a better job than you are, you're naturally gonna trust that they can take the reins. And I think that most agency owners, we we start this business because we're really good at something. We're really good at maybe it's media buying or really good at creative, or maybe you're really good at account management. And then you get into business and you have to wear the 15 hats a day that it takes to grow a business. And sometimes it's okay to hang up a hat, right? And sometimes it's okay to put an account manager in a seat and allow them to do their job, or maybe you hire a salesperson, you let them do their job. And it doesn't mean that you fully lose control. And I think that that's where we've gotten a little bit confused in the agency world. We think that, oh, all I have to do is hire an account manager and then I'm never gonna have to do anything ever again. And that's not necessarily the case, and it's not always the goal. But I think for most of the agency owners we work with, it's really identifying where the gaps are in their current client experience and how we can help fill it in, right? And once we prove to them that listen, we can do a better job and we can take care of your clients in a way more strategic fashion, the agency owners really kind of take a breath of fresh air and they're they're like, listen, I can still work on the high-level strategy without doing the other 80% of the client comms and client meetings that are sucking my energy. So it's kind of a shift in energy, more so than giving up complete control. But it's the biggest thing. It's the biggest reason why agencies are not successful in hiring account managers is because they won't, they won't allow somebody else to kind of come in.

Yeah, yeah. I I I have seen that firsthand so many times. Um, so I have four account managers on my team in my agency. So um, and I and I've noticed that like certain account managers have certain strengths, right? In terms of like, we have an account manager that manages all of our like design, design retainer, social media, like kind of specifically that, not websites, not like ads and that kind of stuff, like very specifically like with design, managing a team of designers and those clients. Um, and then I've got other account managers, right, that are managing web projects or managing like digital marketing and stuff. And and obviously you don't have to have like the most comprehensive knowledge of like that whatever area you're in, but it does help to like have a background to like if you're managing designers and design projects to like, you know, have a good eye for design versus if you're like more in the web projects, you have to kind of understand like some of the ins and outs of like, you know, how plugins and different things interact. You don't have to know all the things, but talk to me a little bit about like how you kind of source, I guess, account managers, knowing that there's sort of like varying types of accounts and services that they're managing.

That's such a good question. So when I was starting the agency, I was really trying to figure out who to hire to make sure that this role was premium, right? Making sure that because I was able to step into an agency and actually talk to their clients and take over, but how did I replicate myself? And I quickly realized that I can't hire somebody junior and train them up because the years of industry experience that it took for me to get from beginner to let's call it expert marketer, that was years of experience. So I quickly realized that I needed to hire somebody who was a marketer first, who was able to learn my methods to premium account management. And so everyone on our team is a marketer first. And the reason for that is because they need to be able to step in and just learn the ins and outs of that agency versus learn the ins and outs of marketing and account management and project management, right? Because you and I both know a lot about marketing. And for us to really be able to remove ourselves, you need somebody who is at that level. So, you know, when agencies ask me, like, okay, should I hire this person? Um, my advice always is, are they able to really step in and remove you? And if not, then it's probably not going to be the lift that you need.

That's good. And talk a little bit about processes because I know, like, as we've added account managers on our team, um, that it's a little bit easier, I would say, now than it was maybe early on, because if we bring on another, let's say, web account manager, um, we have those processes like very well documented now, having had like a number of website account managers. So it's easier for us to bring someone in and like have them understand how we want things done versus like I would say my first one or two where it was like we're sort of building the car as it was going down the highway, you know? Um, and so talk a little bit about like that process building part. Like, is that something that your account managers bring some best practices and kind of help shape that? Is that something where like just talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, I love that. I love the analogy of building the car as you're driving it. Um, so we see everything on the spectrum. So we have some agencies who don't have a project management tool and they're using Excel spreadsheets. And then we have some agencies who have full-blown click-up processes, streamline automations, galore. So you can imagine we can't necessarily go into just any agency with a parachute and say this is how everything needs to be done, because some agencies have things that are already working really well and we can just embed ourselves. But for the agencies who are starting from scratch, from the Excel spreadsheets, there's so many things that we can bring in and implement. But I think the biggest thing is that any strong account manager should be able to come in to whatever your agency already has set up and make it better. And I think most agency owners get stuck because they feel like they need to get their house organized. They need to get their house in order before they bring in a strategic hire. But what we need to shift our mindset is to if you have a really strong account manager, it shouldn't matter how organized your house is or how process driven you are. They're going to come in and make it better. So it's it's an optimization game, just like business. You need to keep refining things and learning and making things better. And that account manager should be able to do that.

Yeah, and there's certain things that are just hard to prepare for ahead of time, right? I mean, it's it's not a perfect analogy, but like when you have a baby or when you get married or something like, yes, you can do like pre-marriage counseling or you can have like some new infant, you know, baby courses or whatever, right? But then the reality is like when the baby comes or you get married, like you just have you're like forced to figure things out that you could have just put off like indefinitely leading up to the time, right? Um, and so I think I think that's like I think that's true where because I'm with you. I'm like, yeah, you don't you're not gonna, they're like, oh, but I don't have any of the processes documented for this new hire that I need or whatever. And I'm like, you just need to get the new hire. And then when they when you know that the start date is June 1st and you have two weeks, and it's like they're coming whether you're ready or not, like suddenly you're gonna make a lot of progress, and then after they come in, they're gonna be able to help with a lot of that stuff as well. Um, and so sometimes you just have to like pull the trigger and do the thing, get it on the calendar, get make it happen, and then you know, it's sort of like planning for a trip, I guess, when you like, hey, I want to go to Europe someday, but like you don't have it on the calendar, like you're not gonna obviously pack for the Europe trip that doesn't have the departure date, right? It's kind of like you're just gonna keep doing all the other stuff you have to do. But then once you know that the plane tickets are there and you're gonna go, like you've got to get ready, especially as it gets closer, it's about to happen, right?

Johnny, I love your analogies, by the way, because it really puts it into perspective. And I agree. It's um, I think the biggest thing that I've learned as an account manager is we are pulling things out of agency owners' brains. And if you have a really good account manager, they just know the things to ask and they know how to pull things out and put it into processes. So just allow them to do that and it'll be so it'll save you so much time too.

Yeah. And I think once they own it, right? Like when you let them own it and they really like can run with it, then it just gets so much better than even if like you or I was doing it because they're like focused on it, they care about it, it's their baby. You know, I love it when one of my account managers, like, hey, I just updated this process because we were having an issue with this one thing, and so now it's better this way, or I went through and did these things or whatever. And it's like I that wasn't even on my radar, I didn't even know about it, I wasn't thinking about it, and now it's like better, right? Because they felt empowered to be able to do that. So I I love that, and I just want to make a slight um aside here because I think you know, agency owners, they this account manager role is a huge uh challenge for them, I think. And so so you provide a great service there, which I think is awesome. And then um the sponsor of this podcast, E2M, uh, provides white label service for you know the developer, the designer, like those other like roles that kind of fall underneath the account manager. And so I think, you know, pairing something like E2M, which is fantastic white label service with like your account management, now it's like, okay, I've got the account management solid, I've got my developers, designers, I don't have to sweat and worry about all that. Now my clients can be served, and I don't have to spend so much time hiring and trying to train up and do all the things. And so I just think um, you know, what a great opportunity to kind of use E2M with something like what you're offering and kind of like you basically have the whole team then at that point, right?

Yep. We actually work with E2M. We love them, and it's a total it's such a great partnership because we are the ones who can speak to the clients and kind of be that middleman. And then they are crushing it on the back end. And it's just, you know, when we work with the team at E2M, they are so grateful when the agency has an account manager because it just makes their life easier. And it's the same for every agency. Like if you have really strong people in the back end, maybe it's developers or media buyers or graphic designers, nine times out of 10, those people do not want to spend all day on client meetings, and nor should they, right? You've hired them to be great at their craft. And same with an account manager, they are they want to talk to your clients and they want to build relationships. And uh, if you allow them to step into their zone of genius, the agency runs way smoother.

I think you're exactly right, you know, and I think this also creates an opportunity to really like increase your profits as an agency, right? Because um, you know, you're avoiding like expensive salaries, um, you're you're saving a lot on hiring and finding people and training. Um talk a little bit about like how you've seen agencies be more profitable or just kind of streamline their expenses with using someone like you all or or even E2M, but I specifically with you all.

Yeah, no, it's a great question because I guess I my answer is twofold. So, one, a friend of mine uh in the agency space works with a lot of agencies on their profitability. And something interesting that he's been seeing is that the agencies who are leveraging outsourced, maybe fractional, but specifically outsourced specialist, they are seeing huge results when it comes to uh they're seeing it in their margins. And this is somebody who's actually looking on the back end of people's, you know, profitability and and how they're able to do that is through outsourcing. Um, and I think, you know, same with us, you know, we outsource certain areas of our business too, because in order to hire the level of expertise that you need for specific roles, such as, you know, a sales director or an account manager or a CFO, in order for an agency to hire that full time, you're A, paying a really big salary and benefits and all of these things that go with it, when really you just need somebody who can do do the work and hit those KPIs. And so oftentimes we're seeing with agencies as they're scaling, they don't want that that risk on on them and on their business. And if they can leverage people and outsourced uh solutions, then similar to E2M, right? If you're growing your agency, you don't want the stress of you know, multi-six figure salaries on your business. So it just kind of makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's there's so many opportunities to like save money and kind of streamline and also the the scalability, right? Because if we suddenly get a bunch of clients, it's easy to add more E2M power or account management power on your side. Um, and also if it gets a little bit slow, we can probably like scale it down just a little bit you know if if we lose a few clients and so it's much easier to do that than when when it's the full time person and you're like oh shoot I'm I I either have to let them go or I you know I have to like just quickly get more work. Um talk a little bit about you know we've been talking about account management. Um sometimes project management gets kind of used interchangeably with like account and project management. Sometimes it is like very similar sometimes it's like two drastically different things. Like talk a little bit about that and sort of like where like the support that you all provide falls.

So when I think of an account manager I think of it being somebody who owns the entire client experience. And I think that in order for an agency to really see success in this role is you need to give the ownership over to the account manager. And as an account manager myself I can tell you that if I don't know where all my projects are at all times, I don't feel like I can really have the reins when it comes to owning the experience. So as an account manager we do not only the the account management but we also do project management because most times they go hand in hand. Now there's certain instances where an agency is big, they have really big projects maybe they're like web dev and the projects are so big that they need a project manager as well. And I have worked with project managers in those cases and it's really great. But for most of the agencies that we're working with they need somebody who can do both because as an account manager I call myself a control freak because if I'm talking to a client on a client meeting and they're like yeah where are we at with that pro like I need to know where everything is at. And I don't want a client to ever ask me like hey where are we at with this? I want to be the one proactively communicating hey like here's where we're at with this project. We're on track I'm gonna update you tomorrow. You know, I want to know where everything's at. In order for me to feel like I can do that, I want to control the project management as well. So we for the most part do both. In some of our larger clients we have both an account manager and a project manager that work hand in hand. But that is really because we want to allow the account manager to focus on the bread and butter, which is the client experience and retention. And then we have a project manager help in the back end. But for the most cases we're doing both.

Yeah yeah and you hit on something there that I think is so important that's like it's like a little nugget that you dropped that's uh I don't want to like just zoom past because I think a great account manager and and you can you can chime in on this but I think a great account manager gives those updates to the client before typically like before the client asks right like I don't I want to have as few the clients saying hey where are we at with this and I want it to be more that Taylor or whoever you know account manager on my team already told the client before they asked the the status because I feel like anytime the client asks the status like we haven't done quite a good enough job keeping them up to date. And and I think you were just you were like you you were hitting on that which I think is so important.

Yes. So if a client ever asks you where we at with something that's such a gut punch because you have missed the mark. And I think I believe that you should be contacting your clients 10 times more than you are right now. And I will be honest our industry has gotten really lazy when it comes to communication and we think like oh well I send them weekly reports and and all that stuff. My methodology is the daily pulse and what I mean by this is you need to be touching base with your clients nearly every day. And I know that seems super extreme but it's more of a mindset. It's maybe it's not every day you're emailing your clients but every day you should know where all of your clients as an account manager you should know where all of your clients are at when the last time you talked to them, where their project is, what's upcoming, is anything behind? Are we ahead and try and update them as much as possible. You know I was chatting with an agency owner last week and she was like you know we just revamped our uh onboarding process and we're we're updating our client every week for the onboarding process and she was like is that enough and I was like no you should update them every day during the onboarding process. The onboarding process is the most important piece because in my mind the sales process, you've sold them here's what you're gonna get here's what you're gonna get here's what you're gonna get they sign on the dotted line they pay that is when they expect to actually get something right that onboarding process is when they expect to for something to be delivered. And if you're not constantly updating them on where things are at and communicating and touch points and little pulses like we call them, then that's already down the drain, right? You want to make sure that you are wowing them. And in today's age like you need to be proactively communicating with your clients and so many agency owners feel like oh well we don't have anything to say but that is not an excuse.

Well there's always something to say right I mean right hey we hey we receive we receive that onboarding info you send or hey we're putting the dev space together or hey we're looking forward to the call in two days and you know we're gonna bring this can you have this ready or I mean there's always something to say right yep and I don't know any client who's ever going to say you overcommunicated too much. Yeah yeah right and if they do that's totally cool you can just you can just you know cater right if they say hey I don't need an update every day just let me know at the end of the week where we're at like cool like we can do that.

You know love that exactly then it's a pat on the back hey you did your job you overdelivered and now they're never going to feel like you're not communicating enough because they have identified how they want to be communicated with and obviously as relationships grow and you work with clients for years well obviously the cadence is going to go down because you've built such trust and rapport and they just they know what you're doing. But every day that goes by clients are thinking that you're not doing anything right and we're human beings. That's just how we work it doesn't matter right so if you let your clients go a week without communicating with them they think naturally that that whole week they've spent money on something that has been wasted and you haven't done anything. And even though you're busting your butt in the back working hard and you're doing all of these things, they naturally just think you're doing absolutely nothing. So always think about it that way, right? Like how can I make sure they know that I'm working hard and my methodology is make your clients feel like you're their only client and you want your client saying like how does Taylor have any other clients because all she does is work on my account.

That is how you want your clients to feel yeah love that love that oh this is so good. Well I'm I'm taking notes if you hear my keyboard clanking in the background I'm like taking notes because this is just so good. I need to like say all of the replay this part of the the episode for everybody on my team because it's just so good. So good. Yeah there's just man so many things and I think you know I was just thinking as you were talking I was also thinking about like the sales process right like before it ever gets to a client account manager or project manager, you know, I think agencies that do sales well, their sales people or their if it's the C, you know, if it's the head person of the agency or whatever, like they at least for me, like I'm very responsive. If I'm talking to like a potential client, you know, or someone about a project and stuff like I'm trying to be on it with the communication. I'm trying to like over deliver you know I'm trying to be very responsive. And I notice like when I've done high ticket purchases as the purchaser like I appreciate someone that's like getting back quickly and like it it helps you, it gives you like those little doses of confidence that like you're working with someone they're gonna take care of you. Cause if they're sloppy in the sales process, then like how's it going to be after they've gotten your money and like stuff it's gonna be you know if they're not so all that to say like I think and I'm sure you see this a lot like a lot of the agencies you're working with are probably like pretty good at sales. And so as a client account manager like you can't drop the ball right like if they were getting all this responsiveness from the sales and on the front end and now they're a client, you don't want it to just be kind of like laxadaisical you know communication and all this. And so I think that's part of the client account manager's job, right? Is to kind of keep that communication and responsiveness going.

Exactly. And I think I'll keep saying this but any good account manager should come fully loaded ready to roll super pumped love the like when I'm an account manager I am all over my clients. Like I just want to talk to them all day every day text me call me whatever right like I just want to help you. And any good account manager should be excited and energized by that. And most agency owners that is the least favorite part of running an agency. They're like I don't want to talk to clients. I don't want to have 400 emails in my inbox every day from client work and project management. So I think finding the right person, they're gonna be excited to do that for you.

Yeah, yeah. And when you get someone that's passionate, they're skilled, you know, and it just makes such a huge difference. Like our clients definitely get better care with me not managing them. And it's not because I don't care or I'm not passionate or I'm even pretty good at it. It's just they're focused in right on this thing. And they're not thinking about running payroll or getting the next sale or all these other things that you have to you know think about when you're running an agency. So Taylor obviously I could I could talk about this with you for like the next the like the rest of the day because this is just so great. But before we sign off here um any last like uh tips or things that you want to share as agency owners that will be listening to this just kind of just anything that you want to share that you think would be helpful here as we wrap up.

Totally. I think my big methodology is that agencies can't afford to get account management wrong. And I mean that from not only client retention, we all know that, right? Manage like keeping your clients happy is key to the bottom line. But also for your team and your team happiness if you have somebody who is representing your clients but also representing your team that is such a great piece of the puzzle of growing a really successful agency. So I think agencies just think that this is a role that they need to fill. Rather you need to think of it as a role that you can't afford to get wrong and you need to make sure you have the right butts and the right seats um as they say so that is super super important. They're like an ambassador of you right as the agency right 100% and I think also when you're managing account managers you always have to remember that this is the soft side of agency life. We are the feely people we care about emotions. We care about you know being empathetic and really feeling feelings and so you have to manage account managers differently. It's not like you're managing an executive assistant or you're not managing a media buyer. We're a different breed and we need to be managed differently so as you're thinking about hiring account managers just think about you know how we are the people who really want the gold stars and we want you know we're people pleasers and overachievers and we really just want to feel like we're doing a great job. And so managing us can be a little bit tricky. But just keeping in mind that you do have to manage account managers differently because we're a different breed.

Yeah yeah for a good reason right and it's a good thing that they are yeah Taylor, thank you so much for joining us. This has been just I've really enjoyed this and we'll make sure that everyone gets all the ways to reach you and everything. But thank you so much for being on here. It's been a pleasure. Thanks Johnny this was a blast thanks for listening to the Agency Hour podcast and a huge thanks to Taylor for joining us. I really believe there are some agency owners and even some Mavericks club members listening who could benefit from her services. Okay folks remember to subscribe and please share this with anyone you think you may need to hear it. I'm Johnny Flash let's get to work