When you're good at marketing, you can break your team. And I could be like, Congrats, everyone! I got 30 new clients. And they're like, How are we ever supposed to do this? And so what I found is if I could buy the first two weeks, there was no human needed. If we had a surge and a week would boom, it was just like, start hiring.

Welcome to the Agency Hour podcast where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week we're joined by Matt DeCino. Matt is a seasoned SaaS entrepreneur and coach and the founder of High Level Pro Tools. And today we're talking about all of the challenges that agencies face when leveraging AI. We'll explore high-level support, automating to appear human, hiring based on your own weaknesses, using AI to book calls, raising the bar with imperfect action, and how to solve 90% of customer acquisition with three simple steps. If you've been intimidated or overwhelmed by all the features that AI or high level offer, then this episode is for you. I'm Johnny Flash. Stay with us. Awesome. Great to have you on here. For those that maybe don't know about high level, I guess they've been sitting under a rock. And if they don't know about high level Pro Tools, just give us a quick overview of some of the stuff that you're doing with agencies and agency support with high level.

Yeah. So we were fortunate to be, I think, one of the first 50 or 100 agencies to use high level. The first year we were just using it for ourselves. I kind of had the vision. Actually, why we even stumbled into it was from a SaaS perspective. So our agency model was we'd get them on as kind of a retainer and we'd have them sign up for seven different softwares. Um, I got jaded uh to the affiliate play. And so I was like, we need to own one of the softwares we're recommending and fell into high level, launched it for ourselves. Uh, a year later, we had people asking, what are you doing? And and we saw that barrier to to entry was the support. Because I had built up a uh at the time as like a little team, less than 10 folks who were running just support day to day to make sure like that brand, that separate SaaS brand, had people like helping them get activated. So then HL Pro Tools was born. So we do outsourced support. So we ended up supporting agencies as well as their customers. And so now we've uh supported three to four thousand agencies and somewhere 40 to 50,000 uh and businesses inside of high level.

Wow, that's amazing. And I think you got connected through us. Uh, you met Troy Dean uh at some of the high level events because he's been in that doing that world, and and so you guys got connected through there. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah. I think we were talking at one of the dinners there. Cool, that's awesome.

Well, as you know, we have a lot of uh agency owners who are using high level, trying to use high level, trying to figure out how to use high level, thinking about using high level, all those things. And from the Mavericks that I'm coaching and and other businesses I'm coaching, this is one of the big challenges, is this space that you're filling where, you know, hey, I've got these snapshots, I've got these things for my clients, but my clients don't know how to use them. So talk about some of the challenges, I guess, that you guys have been overcoming or problems that you've solved, because I think that you've you've got a good handle on this.

Yeah. So we think of it in terms of activation. And this is this is very much so a software perspective, is like it doesn't matter if the tool is great, if they don't use it, they're not gonna keep paying for it. And so it's like, how do you activate a user into a platform or into a software, especially if you're trying to do more of that, like done with you or honestly DIY, like truly they they kind of run it and manage it themselves. And we currently do a ton of stuff, um, but I want to talk to like the things that I think are the most effective and and seem to have uh the most traction. So, in terms of the mode of of support, we do uh you know email, live chat, zoom support, uh, zoom calls, training calls. So I guess those five different versions of like how could you you know be accessible and then also be intentional about that proactive, you know, pushing them into learning these things and developing a comfort in the system there for what I think works best. I really I do love the training call process. So this is, I don't know where we pulled it, but you'll see this kind of success calls is sort of the system there. And so we basically run success calls on behalf of other agencies, but from the software perspective. And to be fair, it's a spectrum as people know. Some people are more software, some people are more agency. And so we've run it all up and down and in between. But it's form and function. So functionally, having a time and slot where it's like you can come in and learn stuff. It's kind of like a lunch and learn for the software, really great. But I think what makes it more effective is a clear path of what you're learning. Well, I'll say what does not work really well is just having, you know, 50 different micro tools wrapped into one and being like, show up and learn about XYZ just because it exists. It doesn't work for most business owners. Uh, it's just not a super effective path. You'd see, like, actually historically, the softwares that gain the most traction are hyper focus. And what's, you know, the double-edged sword of high level, it's wildly like it's this wide application, does so many things. So then people can accidentally fall into the trap of trying to teach all of the things or trying to create access for all of the things. And so the ones where I see it work the best is where we know there's a specific success path. And so we're teaching to that. So there actually might only be three or four things that they really need to grasp, and then it works. And so it could be as simple as you know, one big brand that we help out and they'll support stuff behind the scenes for is uh Frank Kern. He's pretty vocal about using us. So it's okay saying that. And so his path is uh the AI bots. So he just focuses on essentially a mix of kind of like reactivation with AI bots. So it's like you have a list or you grow your list, reactivate them, and the bots set them into appointments or kind of triage that sort of thing. And so, you know, commonly, like what are we getting into? Train it on your website, go through the make sure you have an A2P phone number process, make sure you have a phone number that texts. And those are the kind of key things. Like, are we getting into domains? No. Are we getting into course area? Like, no. Are we getting into all these other even like reviews, which would be a good thing? He's not against it, but it's like activation sounds like I have a phone number that works. Um, usually it's then does a number swap on like a Google business profile, and I have my bot turned on. And that alone just changes the context where now, if somebody actually if somebody calls the number, their business is not going to answer, but it's going to text. And then when they respond to the text, there's a bot that triages and does kind of customer support and books them into appointment, ideally. And so, uh, yeah, trying to get the least number of actions or things that need to be activated, and then just having a clear, a clear path to keep training the same formula there. Yeah.

And talk a little bit about because I think you know, it can be a little bit intimidating for those that aren't in the middle of high level already, like, oh, it's another tool I have to learn. Like you said, it's wide open, so there's so many things you can do with it. I've I've seen lots of people go down rabbit trails, like they start doing it, and then it's like they're not even running their business anymore. They're like down some rabbit hole lost in in high level. Um, but but but there's so much potential there, and I'm sure you're seeing with all these agencies and and businesses that you're working with, like the amount that they're able to charge when they kind of put something together that people want. Talk a little bit about like some of that potential, and just I obviously I don't want you to disclose anything like you know directly, but like give you all the proprietary stuff, but just some of that stuff that you're seeing from your perspective, because you're probably able to see like what they're charging and the service you're providing and that kind of stuff.

Yeah, it's it has been, it's super fun, interesting perspective because I get to see kind of like bird's eye view of be like, oh, here's the things that are trending, here's the things that are working well. Um, across the board, you know, this is just classic business, is it's like the amount of value you can capture, that's the money you can make, is proportionate or at least somewhat correlated to the amount of value that's created. So create more value, capture more value. This is also gets to like if you solve rich people problems, they'll make you one of them, right? So it's like if you can solve those higher value problems, sometimes it's a higher value problem just because of the person you're solving it for. Same problem. So sometimes the issue is you're like, oh, I'm literally doing the same thing for a hot dog stand. If I did the same thing for a lawyer, I would charge a lot more. And in some ways, it'd be feel a lot easier because the pressure to win is lower because they're you know, the cost of a client is higher. And so um but the low-hanging fruit, this is like timeless business. That the how I think of it is like if if people know you exist, especially when they need you, if you look ideally, if you look so good or it's so easy to reach out to you, like they can't help it. And then if you're quick to respond, that's like 90 plus percent of the battle of like customer acquisition. So if if when people need you, they know you exist. When they see you, you look so good it feels silly not to respond or to reach out. And then when they reach out, you're quick, quick, kind, and thorough. That solves, like I said, 90% of customer acquisition for growth goals in a business.

It puts you ahead of everyone in any business too, not just as an agency or as a marketer or whatever, right? I mean, if you're the plumber and you, you know, you have your marketing out there and they know you exist, you respond immediately, you know, they look at your stuff like, wow, look at all these reviews, everything is really good. And then you respond immediately and you're showing up. Hey, I'll be there. I know it's late, but I'll be there at six o'clock tonight or whatever, right? It's like you they're gonna get a lot of business, right?

And and so understanding that, it's like you can slot in and you could have focus on one of those areas. It's fine. You or you could do comprehensive full stack marketing and and and own all of those things. Um, but that's where I see people like fill in the gaps too, right? So sometimes the the low-hanging fruit, or if I was gonna pick a high value customer who uh people know they exist, they look good, so they reach out to them and then they're slow to respond, like just fix their responsiveness. So those are some of the easy problems. And then there are certain offers, I don't think it's giving away any secrets. I'll tell you right now. So some of the fastest growing people are curious, like if you're trying to pick a niche, like what's one of the fastest growing niches right now? In the US, I would have never guessed this. Um, but are you familiar with like Ozempic? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. That's like the way it's like, but it's like making the waves right now. I mean, it's making the waves. So if the fastest crazy like value creation insanity right now that I see booming is is stuff in that space in the weight loss drug space. So this kind of there's many different angles of people doing it. Maybe it's an MD or a med spa or something like that. Uh, there is tons of folks that are becoming aware. So then it's like if you put your brand in front of them, they're like done, right? And it just goes like, Do you look good? You're trustworthy, you reach out, are you quick and kind of third of response? Um, so I see a lot of uh I see a lot of value creation there because the opportunity, it's just like this was just a seasonal or I don't know, seasonal, but it's like it's a growing trend of people, you know, maybe this is the cure to obesity in America. And so that's that's a that's a big shift of things going on. Um, but it comes down to the classic problem of like, you know, can you if you solve a high value problem and then if you're sliding into one of those things, like I'm helping with visibility, helping them show up, I'm uh helping them look better, like more attractive. That could be reviews, that could be actual design, that could be accessibility, I kind of put in there. So, like one binary thing that I teach and we use a lot is just if if businesses don't have a chat widget on the website, um someone wants to nugget, like we'll reach out via the web chat form and say, like, hey, I'm reaching out via your contact form because I noticed you don't have a chat widget. Um, in our experience, this is actually preferred, and it's probably what I would have used. Um, but we have something that can help solve this. It could literally take me less than 30 minutes, I'll get installed in there. And uh, if you'd be interested, here's my calendar, book a 15-minute call. Um, it's so binary. It's like the business doesn't have it. You know they don't have it because you're there, and the business owner becomes instantly problem aware because that's how you start. It's like, I'm using your contact form because you don't have a better form of communication. Uh, so that's that's you know, another like little subset. And so in that focus, uh, it becomes easier to fulfill and easier to to sell it again because you're you're yeah, I'm we're setting them up on high level, but it's like even with that, we don't even use phone now. So we use this because the chat widget is just if just the chat form. We do the chat where it's literally live chat, and uh so I don't even need to worry about A2P or phone numbers or any of that sort of stuff. I'm like literally live chats there, and the secondary problem is um, well, that's why we get them bought into AI.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. With it, I was I was waiting for you to go there because it's that's the thing is like, oh, but I can't respond, or I don't have people to respond in real time. It's like you we can train the AI to answer most of these problems and get them booked into our calendar or get them a quote scheduled, whatever, you know, all those things, right?

Yeah, exactly. So that's that's what we're seeing right now. So those are some of the, you know, hopefully making sure you're fitting into one of those problems. If you can go into an industry that has more value, like I, you know, roofers, any high-ticket HVAC, stuff like that. A missed customer to them, I mean, if you're a roofer, missed customer to you is probably worth over, you know, five figures.

Oh, yeah.

Like definitely in profit, like definitely it could cost $50,000, $50,000 for a roof. And you're gonna make $30, $20,000, $30,000 on that roof at least. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's like, uh, so it's very easy to it becomes easier to create value because you're like, I'm not not doing anything more difficult. They might even only have 20 leads a month or 50 leads a month. So it's not even high volume. Um, but those missed opportunities cost them more, therefore you can charge more because you're creating more value.

And you're saving them time also, right? Because by some of the AI follow-up and everything, you're gonna weed out the people who are just tire kicking or whatever, because they're not even gonna be giving the bot their email or their phone or whatever. Like, you know, they they kind of get cut off at the door themselves. They kind of self, you know, opt out. Um, and so it saves you time of trying to follow up with the person calling them five times and they haven't called back and they weren't really serious, anyways, right?

Well, and this is interesting. So if we want to dive into so people, so we have HL Pro Tools, is what we're uh known as. We license out another, uh, really just became like what was one of the first add-ons that we created for high level way, way back. This is in 2020. We created a connection to dialogue flow. And so this was Google's AI uh engine at the time. And so we were doing conversational booking in in 2020, and so we licensed that out under Zappy Chat. And it is surprising how judged we feel as humans, even as business owners. Like we stop way too early. This is what we found by now deploying mostly like like AI for the follow-up, and it's just persistent and it keeps there, and it's quick, kind, and thorough, quick, kind of thorough. Uh, I am surprised how many leads convert longer. And it's just we don't have the relational endurance as business owners to kind of court the lead as long as they need. And so for us, it's that that that's why, you know, if you're barely trying, businesses will treat it like buy and buy or die, right? And they're like, hey, uh, you don't want a roof this weekend, okay. You're you're dead to me, right? This is why there's whole space there of just reactivating old leads creates value there. But what I love is AI doesn't get caught up in the emotion, like almost some of the emotional nuance where we project onto the other person. So we think, uh, I would I wouldn't want them to text me. This is the 30th time they're texting or whatever it is. AI is like, this, I just do my job. And and we found this compared to like years ago where you have to have like more VAs or like people that were trained up to just respond to leads. Like the lead, I just went over a case study uh um today where the lead had said the engagement worked, and they're like, hey, I could hop on, like, hey, I'm free to chat right now, right? The human would be like, let me break all protocol, let me see if the owner wants to get on right now. They'd be calling trying to like disrupt the flow, even though like the game was set appointments, like book and set appointments. What does the AI do? It's just like it's not a brick wall, it just glazes past it. Like, oh, well, these are, you know, typically they're in-person consultations. I cannot be sets it up, person shows up, closes the deal, right? But like, how many times would we as humans we'd be like, let me slow my response, let me let me see what I can do, let me just break the mold of what is the predictable, repeatable formula for success, where AI is like, no, I just keep doing it. I feel no judgment. I don't project negativity on the other side of this conversation because I've none, I have none to project. All I have is the rules by which you set for me, and I keep on living them day in and day out. And so we're seeing that as like an extra effect here is we literally stay uh we think of it quick, kind, and thorough, and and there's a endurance there that I think as humans, we would cut off way sooner than AI. I just know it it doesn't get a chance to cut it off, so it keeps going. And so we see, yeah, persistence wins, endurance wins.

And the AI can tailor it as as good as a human or even more so, right? If they know, like, hey, we can we can take him down this path, we can take him down this path. Um so that yeah, you're right. I mean, I think even I find myself at times like, I'm just gonna use this this email that I sent this other person, like, you know, I can copy and paste that, and like it's pretty good, you know, whatever, but like the AI can remember all the other emails that have been sent without having to look them up, you know.

Yeah, the the power of context. We've and and we still have um this is a challenge. We want to talk on the support side now. We do um we're not AI first because we haven't found the issue with support because people always ask the story, you got Zappa Jet over here, why don't you just do that for HLPs? Why why is it why do you have such a big team? Support is so much more nuanced because people don't know the questions to ask. I feel like every day we learn a new word that someone's gonna use to refer to something like you would never think about, right? That like they'd be like, where do you edit the name of a lander? And some people might be like, Oh, he's talking about funnels. He went from like funnels to landing pages to it's a lander. If I ask AI, where do you change the name on a lander? I don't care if you're trying it on the entire high-level knowledge base, it has no idea what you're talking about. Like it like that nuance, uh, and it's just or it's also like people just don't know. So sometimes they literally use the wrong words. So if you just answered them in the the point blank of what they asked you, you'd be giving them the wrong information because they're in a confused state. They are literally like they literally don't even know. It's kind of like prompting for AI, where it's like they don't even know how to put the right inputs to get the right outputs. And so we kind of hybrid this with um with agents. But one of the best things is context because AI can quickly be like, I've read all the messages there, so nothing's left off or dropped, because that's that's a very difficult human thing. There's like how many times you'd be like, I see the message here, and there could be months of back and forth. Let's be honest, how many of us are like, let me scroll through all the history to get a quick refresher on what they what they said? No, most people are not doing it.

Well, and the worst is when my team tags me in, right? And they tag me in, like, hey John, we need you to do this. And you look at the thread and you're just like, oh my goodness, this is gonna be the next 30 minutes of my life trying to like just get up to speed to like say something. Yeah, to figure out what's you know, yep. And it's like the AI is just like, okay, I've consumed all that. Like, what do you what do you need from me, right? Yep. Yeah. If we could turn the corner a little bit, because I'm just I I am fascinated by this. Like, I know you have a large team to order support all of these agencies and all of their clients, thousands and thousands, thousands of clients. How how big is your team? And then the question uh that I really want to know is like, how do you, you know, because I think a lot of the agency owners, like they're their own biggest bottleneck. And I know we're talking about AI, but like they get in their own way, they're perfectionists, they can't hand the thing off. They think if they don't do X, Y, or Z, like it's not gonna get done right, or it's not gonna get done. And so I'm constantly having to coach agency owners, like, you have to let go because like you're what's holding this business back. It's not really the designer, it's not the developer, it's not the project manager, not all these things. And so obviously you've you've done this really well. And so if you could just talk a little bit about that, especially, you know, they might not have as many team members as you, but like they they have a vision to grow their team and they're having trouble letting go.

Yeah, love it. Um, in terms of the count, I actually don't know the exact count, but it's somewhere between 180 and 200. So we are around that size, and we've been bringing on five to eight people per week. So we're growing and and scaling up even the growth there. And so I'm thinking early on, and this is like you mentioned like getting over yourself. I have I think self-awareness is is actually one of the most critical skills for any business leader or owner there. And so for me, it's been helpful. One of the lenses I use is the Enneagram. And I intentionally hire like I insulate my weaknesses, if that makes sense. So I'd see a lot of people struggle because they're hire the same as them, or they'll partner with the same as them and just go like two times, just doubles down on things that were gonna go well and then doubles down on things that were gonna go wrong. And so um, I remember looking back. So if anybody knows Enneagram, I'm a seven. Okay, I'm a three. Okay, love it. And I hire primarily ones and twos, especially like our I looked at like our director level, it was like everybody else was ones and twos. And then I'm I'm the one seven over there. And so for me, I'm the kind of person I have a list of 10 things to do, I do six of them, and I'm like, I won that day, killed it, just crushed it. And my my uh business partner, for example, he's like he has a list of 10 things to do, and he does nine and loses sleep, or he does all 10 and loses sleep because he thinks I should have had a list of 11 things to do if I could do all 10 in a day, right? Or whatever it is, just punishes themselves for the pieces that aren't done there. But so if you so start with self-awareness, know where you're at, and then you can honestly insulate and and uh you know hire away those weaknesses. And so you might be someone who struggles with imperfect action. I'll say in growth, like in the traction phase, man, imperfect action is such a secret weapon, and you just realize that there is no such thing as kind of like perfection. It's just uh the game is iteration, like make it better fast. Yeah, yeah, is really what happens, and most folks fail to even make it like deploy it, publish it.

This is a huge, just to interject, this is a huge thing that we teach in that Troy is big on, that we teach in Maverick. to like take massive imperfect action because like just you you're just so far ahead and like you you don't want it doesn't need to be perfect right you just need to get it the the next version out the next thing done like when we're talking to someone they haven't launched their website like yeah the team didn't quite finish our new website we're still working I'm like just publish it it's it's 10x better than what you currently have and it's gonna it can evolve it's not like stamped in concrete right yeah I think people would be surprised with how much we've been able to do with imperfect action I do think we've like now had to turn a corner and and like raise the bar um which is not a bad thing to do but I'd say it's like it's inappropriate timing.

And so for you're still talking like team here's the the the the the two gifts for for me was technology can be super valuable. So I will automate as much as I possibly can. I think people underestimate how much this was years ago there wasn't even as much cool things going on now that you can do. But so um I became like a power we still are kind of like power um zapier users and there's lots of things out there but it's like because I'm I don't settle at one I think through like the psychology of what it feels like when it feels like a person is doing it versus it being automated. So I think about like imagine two chairs they're wooden chairs um one of them it's hand whittled here in the United States put a price on that the other one it's I don't know stamped out in China in a huge factory put a price on that but recognize they're identical chairs to the T they're actually identical chairs the process the inefficiency of the process we for whatever reason will ascribe value to that because it was hand whittled so you don't just automate for the sake of automating because sometimes then people's automations come off like that China stamped chair. I will automate it in a way that it feels hand whittled in the United States. So automate it to look like there's inefficiency is a great example for any agency owner you could do this this was an early on created capacity for us. So we'll take on a client and I backed into how could I automate the first two weeks of client work that requires no people. And so usually in the client process there, it's well I mean everything it's setting and meeting expectations. And so just imagine if you're coming on with a client you know there's 50 things you're gonna do for them or whatever it might be. I would take out 20 of those things I would create an inefficient but thorough process around them and then I would automate all the communication and all of the work and intentionally delay it delivery out over two weeks. So let's imagine like if I'm a designer and you know they're gonna have a website so what I'm gonna do I'm gonna ask them for some bits of copy. I might come up with copy even sections or layouts or like you know types of pages there. I might come up with wireframes and I might come up with uh you know early kind of color schemes based on their logo. I don't know whatever it might be lookbook or these things. We start off and be like and I use Zapier because Zapier will actually send Gmail like from your Gmail. It's not like a you know other sender so it feels like it's transactional it's like actually sending from the Gmail. And so we create this process of like welcome on this is so awesome. Step one is you know Olivia she's gonna work on like here's what's here's what's happening behind the scenes. John, our head of copy is kind of getting a guide together for you to get some input over these things that we find work well in terms of types of pages for you. Olivia she heads up uh you know our design team she's gonna be putting together like your initial uh wireframes about I'll I'll introduce the other people and then I'll say you know this usually takes like four to five days to expect that this will take like two to three da da da um but I told everyone we're super excited about you coming on here so I put a rush order on it. We'll see how fast we can do it. Literally with automation it was all done immediately. Like they paid and it was all done but I didn't ship it to them. I intentionally stretched out and created this process of setting expectation this should take us about four to five days and then what what happened an automated email from I forget my fictitious names like Olivia would come two days early. And so for the first two weeks it looked like we kept on setting and beating expectations and what did we deliver we delivered the copy guide what was that it was a Google Doc that we had well designed that had literally the same sort of stuff in it for every client it's always gonna be the same way but we put like the title and I could use app year to clone the document change the title link that inside of uh like literally the email that was being sent and then it's sent off all this process where like each piece we found what were the things that we always do how could we make them inefficient or appear to be inefficient and then use it to our advantage and so here's why because you might be thinking Matt why I just intentionally go slow it's not what I'm a human on the other end. It's because what we realized when you're good at marketing you can break your team and so that's what I found. You're good at marketing and sales and I could be like congrats everyone I got 30 new clients and they're like how are we ever supposed to do this and so we kept on being a place where we needed to hire and so what I found is if I could buy the first two weeks there was no human needed if we had a surge and a week would boom it was just like start hiring like we got paid we got the next two weeks are covered start hiring because we know we need to queue up folks to actually take over and run and to be able to do this work here. So we baked in a capacity there but the key things were the key things were challenging how much you can automate because you really can automate so much more than than you believe and do it in a way that feels uh personable and uh sometimes that's by making it inefficient, you know, bonus points if you can predictably set and beat expectations it's just it it blew my mind. But so like other agencies are like oh in times of surge like clients that get so unhappy I was like man all of our clients loved us because I had a choreographed dance where I knew I was gonna intentionally set and beat expectations for the first two weeks with us. You know that kind of environment most of the time people fail to even set expectations and then even when they do they push it because they think I need to make this like it's all going to be done as fast as possible. It's like none of us have any context. Like if if I'm hiring someone to do my floors and they're like this is this usually takes four to five weeks. I'm like I don't do floors I have no idea like that sounds reasonable to me would probably take me four to five months right if they and if they know it's like actually we do this in like five days I'm like how smart of them because then they're gonna be like hey few things I open well if they want they could build in some reciprocity and be like I move things around I told the team this is urgent and important. I want to get this done as fast as possible mostly because I want to blow your socks off so you leave us the best review you've ever left any business in the world. So what happens? They're blown away they leave you an amazing review but you choreograph the dance and so we that's that's what we're thinking about.

Yeah no and I think if we take what we're talking about because we've got like okay you got the two two week delay automation right and you're they're getting the personal touch it's you're over delivering one of our the sponsor of this podcast is E2M. They they can help your agency with uh have a designer developer copywriter like in your agency not have to go hire them so that solves the hiring problem right like oh we've got this load coming in you can scale it up e2 scale it up and then we've got like you're you know we're we're putting in these high level snapshots and different implementations widgets things in there and your team's providing the support it's like you could just sell all day the automations happen the onboard you've got the the team built up there I mean there's just so much possibility when you think about this that it's I'm I'm just I'm like I'm making no if you see me typing I'm taking notes here like okay we got to go like tweak this part of our process or whatever with AI and have someone else you know have the bots do it.

Yeah so that's you know you're kind of mentioning how do you not how do you focus on the right thing at the right time I think it's imperfect action but ideally you actually don't build this until you need it. So the first time do it because you don't really know what is that ideal scenario until you do it the first time. But as you're thinking about like what are the good things to build, it is the stuff that improves the perception of like how your client thinks you feel about them. Like they usually remember more so not how good of a job you did or even what you did, but it's like the feeling. And so for us we say like we want them to feel like we care more about their business than they do. These are the kind of things that do that and and I I just say give yourself like people need to have more permission to like design a game where you're always winning and that's what we did. We were always winning and it wasn't so how did you get a ton of reviews and all these video testimonials like because we designed it that way. We always set worse expectations than I knew we were going to be able to do we made some things seem more inefficient than they actually were because it increased the value for the customer and it it kind of would be disappointing right imagine if you paid whatever $60,000 for a new roof and they and they like came out and like snapped their fingers and it was done you'd be like I think I overpaid right to some degree technology works against us because we assume if it's efficient, if it's the if there's a ton of technology there, it shouldn't cost as much. And so for the kind of service provider agency space there, use that to your benefit to build in margin for scale and uh and and don't don't let it work against you.

Matt, wow this is this is incredible I could I could just keep going with you for the next hour, which I know we don't have the time and everyone else has got stuff to do. But this is just so great. I'm so glad to be able to connect with you and uh just uh the nuggets that you shared I think are so helpful for our audience and uh are going to make them be able to run better agencies, SaaS companies, all the different things that they're doing. So uh thank you so much Matt this has been incredible.

Yeah it was great.

Love uh love being on the show. Awesome. Thanks for listening to the agency hour podcast and a huge thanks to Matt for joining us. If you're interested in high level of course you have an affiliate link in the description where you can get an extended trial and get our awesome list builder snapshot that Troy Dean built himself just go to go highlevel dot com slash Troy dash dean Matt has also kindly agreed to give away his SAS snapshot just go to hlprotools dot com slash mavericks. Okay folks remember to subscribe and please share this with anyone who you think may need to hear it. I'm Johnny Flash let's get to work