Businesses do not care about your efforts. They could not care less about how much time you spend on SEO. As somebody who buys services on the engineering side, I couldn't care less about the effort that somebody puts. I care about whether or not this feature is going to be finished, right? And go. It needs to be about results and not about effort.

Welcome to the Agency Hour podcast, where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week we're joined by Mikhail Dia, a digital marketing expert and the founder of Funnel Linux. And in this episode, we will discuss how you can use funnels to turn a complete stranger into a customer. We explore how to get consistent results for your clients by productizing your offer, how to optimize your marketing funnel to boost conversions and ROI, and how visualizing the customer journey helps identify gaps and improve strategies, and so much more. If you're looking for some practical tips to enhance your marketing and grow your business, you're in the right place. I'm Johnny Flash. Stay with us. We just moved. So it's been a little chaotic over here, but uh it's it's going well. We're slowly getting unpacked. You can see my whiteboard still needs to go up on the wall. But uh man, I'm so glad to have you on uh since we chatted a little while back. Um, for those of maybe that are just aren't familiar, can you just give a quick overview of Phonalytics and and the stuff that you guys are doing there?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh so um my name is Mikhail Dia. Like I founded a company called Phonalytics, as you just kind of mentioned. And uh Phonolytics is really, in simple terms, a digital whiteboard. So that little whiteboard that you got on the wall there, or I guess it's on the floor in this case. Yeah, we've basically built it um like a Miro style kind of canvas style whiteboard where you can actually map your entire marketing funnels, your entire customer journeys, all the pages, the traffic sources, the actions that people take. And you can connect them together and you can overlay data on top so you can see exactly how are people flowing through all your marketing funnels, what are your conversion rates, what are the bottlenecks, what's working, what's not. So you don't have to deal with spreadsheets and charts and graphs. Uh, it's really kind of built for those marketing nerds out there who kind of love to look at numbers but like to also look at it in a visual way and not have to deal with Google Analytics.

Yeah, and I I think that's what I love about the funnelytics uh as we were going through it previously, is that you know, just the visual part of it, like it's just so great to be able to see, like, okay, I want to see this and getting to here, and it just kind of shows you it all in a visual way, which is really awesome. Um, and I think funnels are so important, right? In conversion and all that, because I mean, as marketers, as you know, people listening to this who might build websites, like there's just you could make it look real shiny and pretty and everything, but like if it's not converting, if they're not getting through the funnel, it kind of doesn't even really matter, right? What it looks like in some ways. So, yeah, let's talk about before we get into like some of the funnelytics uh stuff, which I know you guys have a lot of like great features and stuff, but um, talk about just a little bit, if you could, some of the um, I don't want to say funnel hacks, but I mean like when people are trying to convert better and build their funnel, like you know, some people are good at it, some people think they know how to do a funnel, and they they maybe really don't. But just talk a little bit about that part and and and things that you guys have been seeing that work for funnels.

I I I think I think the first thing that we need to kind of get aligned around is um you know what is a funnel, right? I think I think there's a a lot of misconception of like a funnel is one of like five things. You can either sell a book in a funnel, or you can kind of try to sell a a a little you know tripwire offer of like seven dollars, or maybe it's a webinar funnel. It's like these they're categorized in these buckets, but really what we're thinking about when we're um when we're creating these marketing funnels is how do we get a stranger to become a customer, right? And what are all of the steps in the process to make that happen? And a lot of times we underestimate that, like when somebody clicks on an ad, goes to a page, maybe then they go and do some research on you, and then they come back to your site and read a blog, and that's technically still a funnel, right? It's it's a journey that somebody takes. Now, in the more kind of Russell Brunson click funnels, you know, you know, area or or world that we kind of live in. Now, what we're really talking about is how do we architect that sequence of steps in a way that number one gets this random stranger to become a lead? Well, so give us a name, email, maybe a phone number. And then how do we educate them and sell them onto our offer? And then how do we then make them go to the next stage and the next stage? Right. So that's the first thing that we have to really kind of um get around. And then we we can take it back and say, okay, what are the components of a funnel? So if I want to turn a stranger into a customer, there's um two components that are net necessary, and then there's one that is more of a uh optional depending on on what I'm selling and and the price point. So the first thing that we're always going to start with is our offer. Uh, how much is it? What are we trying to sell, right? Because at the end of the day, we're trying to get a stranger to become a customer, so we need to know what we're trying to get them to buy. Uh, the price point will dictate a lot of the components of the funnel. So if something is call it um $3,000 or more, it's really hard to sell it online without a phone conversation, especially if you don't have the authority, if uh people don't know who you are, you don't have all the reviews, you don't have all the proof, etc. Um, it's really, really difficult. So usually the goal is then to move somebody into a a sales conversation, and and then we close them through that. So the funnel itself doesn't end when somebody just gets on a phone call. The funnel goes all the way to the sale, but part of that is we need them to apply and schedule a call with us. So um now on the flip side, a lot of times if something's less than let's call it, you know, $2,000. Um we can usually architect it so that we don't have to speak to somebody, we can get them to buy right then and there through an order form, um, etc. Okay. So the offer is the first thing that we always have to think about. Then based on that offer, there's two call to actions to try to get somebody to buy. Either they're gonna fill out a form and get on a call with us, or maybe they've scheduled a call directly into a calendar, or they're gonna go to an order form and make do the purchase button, right? So in order for that to happen, usually what we're going to have is some sort of sales or offer page that is going to get them to either get on the phone or push the buy button, right? So that's kind of what we call the sales aspect of the funnel. So there's the either an application portion if it's high ticket, or it's a sales portion, um, if it's if it's kind of lower price point. Okay. Then on the other, on the other side of it, on the kind of front end side, is well, these people are strangers. Unless your offer is super, super cheap, where it's like almost like a you know, throwaway kind of thing. Throw away, hey, here's seven bucks. I don't really care. Um, you're gonna need to follow up, you're gonna need to nurture that person, you're gonna need to you know turn that stranger into some sort of contact that you can you can you know communicate with. So on the front end side is usually some sort of lead opt-in, lead funnel aspect. So usually the two most common ones are either you know a downloadable, like put in your name and email, get access to this case study, get access to this white paper, get access to this free trial checklist, whatever. Um, or sometimes it'll be more of like a quiz style, a calculator, something that you know uh allows me to segment you and and give you maybe a bit more of a tailored experience. But the whole goal there is I I'm trying to capture their name, their email, maybe their phone number, right? Now I have a lead and I can follow up with them. So those are kind of the two core components. Now, in the middle is what we kind of call the education aspect. Okay. Now that middle portion is optional, it really depends on two components. Number one, how expensive is your offer and does it require education, right? So, for example, if you're gonna sell somebody um a five thousand dollar coaching aspect, well, they're most likely going to need to learn a little something before they commit to you know buying that that coaching program, right? However, um this is interesting because we we talk to agencies and I've ran a lot of agency funnels. Um, when you're trying to get clients for an agency, they don't want to learn, even though your offer may be um, you know, ten thousand dollars a month, it may be fifty thousand dollar funnel build or whatever it may be like whatever.

Maybe it's a $2,500 a month growth plan. Maybe it's you know you're gonna do some marketing for them and right.

The key of what you just said though is you are going to do the work, which means that they are not in the mindset of I want to learn something.

I'm in the mindset they don't want to know how the SEO works or the Google ads work or whatever the thing is, right? They just want they want to know that Johnny's gonna be able to deliver the the customers, make the phone ring off the hook, whatever it is, right?

That's all they care about, right? They care about do you can you actually do you understand my problem? Do you have a solution to this problem? And do you have any proof that your solution like works? And if so, and how long is it gonna take to get to work, right? How long is it gonna take to get to work? But yeah, I don't care about what you're doing, I don't care about how many blog posts, I don't care about I don't care about any of that stuff. A lot of times um I kind of use this analogy for people. It's like, imagine your your you know, your toilet is broken and you need a plumber. Are you gonna watch a 60-minute webinar to learn how toilets get fixed before you call the plumber and you're like, hey, great, I now know that you need to open up the valve and switch this and do that. So uh can you come do it for me now?

Only only my handy neighbor who like does everything himself. Like he might watch the video on how he wouldn't need a 60-minute video, he'd need the two-minute version, maybe, but he would do it himself. But me, I'm not gonna go fix the toilet myself. I'm gonna call the plumber, right? And I'm not gonna watch the video.

Yeah, well, and that's the thing, right? And I think um that that your your handy neighbor, his intention is different. He's not gonna go and hire that plumber, he wants to fix it himself. So, therefore, if you were to sell him a little course on how to be you know a plumber, maybe he'd go and buy that and he'd want that education component, right? So that's what I kind of say. That education piece is is very optional depending on does a person need to be educated onto the offer? And usually the price is also going to be a big portion. And in terms of education, usually there's kind of two core um education funnels that we use nowadays, which is still kind of the traditional webinar, 60-minute webinar, or um, now we've kind of transformed it into like challenges or something like that. But really, it's just a series of three to five videos where we're just constantly nurturing you, educating you, getting to you know, getting you to know, like, and trust us before we ask for the sale, right? Before we push you over to that that sales funnel aspect. So kind of, you know, giving that, those are kind of the three core components that we look at in terms of of funnels. And uh what I we've noticed uh in in you know, looking at, you know, we track about 400 and 500 million data points uh a month. We've got you know, I don't know how many people have actually mapped funnels and phonolytics. Um what we've noticed is every uh scalable and and successful funnel is uh a combination of one of these three components. And usually again, it's a combination of about six different things. Either it's a survey or a lead generation, either it's a webinar or a mini-class type of thing, and either it's an application or it's an actual sales page with an order form. And people will just kind of pick and choose these, combine them together, and then drive traffic and and ultimately that's how they convert strangers uh into customers.

Love it. That's so good. And I think, you know, as I as I think about like some of my clients who really have their funnel dialed in, you know, it's like it's the it's the patio guy who has the online calculator. They're drive, they've got YouTube videos that are that are running that are showing different things. They're driving traffic in from Google, Facebook, social, whatever, to their online calculator. And they're basically saying, like, hey, it's so easy, you can get a quote in like you know, a minute or two instantly. And they've got a nice calculator that you put in the dimensions of your deck or patio or this or that. And of course, before it's gonna give you any information, you've got to put your name and email in, make sure you're in their service area, and then it's gonna email you the quote, you know, so that you can't just put in the test at test.com or whatever and try to like, you know, get the quote without giving your information. So I mean, and it works really well for them, right? Because they've got they've got it in there, they're getting the name. Um, and obviously, if you're building a deck or patio, at least where I live, like it's gonna be tens of thousands of dollars. So, I mean, this is like a high ticket kind of thing, right? Um, and people may want to have some education in terms of like what can I do on my deck, or you know, do I do I want the fire pit? Do I want this or that? You know, there's some of the that a little bit of educational just in terms of like what it could look like or inspirate, maybe inspiration is like a better word, right? It's like you're redoing your kitchen, you want to see some other good kitchens before you're gonna hire the kitchen remodeler, possibly, right? Yep.

Um, and and usually when it's home services, what happens is again, that funnel doesn't end on um the funnel is all the way to a sale, right? We always have to keep that in mind. So typically with uh home services, what happens is I'm gonna get the lead, then I'm gonna schedule some sort of home appointment. And that conversation continues. Now I'm gonna come see your kitchen, I'm gonna walk through and I'm gonna, you know, and then I'm gonna come back, I'm gonna give you a quote, and then you're going to kind of sign on the dotted line.

Or get in some sequence or whatever until you sign or whatever, right? Yeah. Precisely.

Right. And that's just how we need to be thinking about this idea of funnels is less about like what is the page, what is the you know, hook, headline, all these things. Like these things matter, of course, for conversions and optimizations. But what we really want to think about is just what are the the what is the sequence of steps, right? How do I get this random person who's never heard of me to actually go all the way through to being customer? And in your the case you just kind of mentioned, it's okay, great. I'm gonna go through some sort of calculator type of quote, then I'm gonna get you an email, then at some stage, I'm gonna probably get you to schedule an appointment, then I'm gonna come to your house, then we're gonna have a conversation, then I'm gonna go and do a proposal, and then we're gonna close the deal, right? There's the sequence, right? Now we look at, okay, how do we track that? How do we look at the data? Where are the breakpoints? What's working, what's not, is the amount that I'm spending to get that first step, that first kind of calculator step. Is it you know breaking down?

Paying off all the way to the sale, right? Precisely, right?

And is there a return? And if it if the numbers work and I can scale it, great, that's how you scale.

Yeah. And the data is important to track all along with you know the funnel, but also you have to have the good offer up front, right? Because if you don't have the good offer, like you could have all the tracking in place and stuff, which you'll know your offer sucks because you're not getting all the way through, which is that part's good. But um, and we have training in in agency Mavericks. Uh, one of our trainings called the Godfather method. It's basically like, how do you make that offer that's too good to refuse? You know, um, but I think that's an important part that I think agency owners struggle with, you know, in terms of like, what is my offer that's gonna resonate and who am I pitching it to, right? Because there's two parts. There's like the audience that you're trying to reach and the offer that's gonna resonate with them, and then you have all the tracking, you know, through the funnel. Talk a little bit just about like that offer piece, because I think that's a part where like that they get hung up in even the whole funnel part because they don't have a strong offer.

Yeah, so there's there's a couple parts to um offer, you know. Being in a SaaS world, uh I've I've learned a lot about you know product market fit. And what's interesting is in the SaaS space, SaaS space is really the only place that we use that kind of language of product market fit. Um, but really all we're really talking about here is I have uh an offer, which is my my product, my solution. I have a very clear defined market, and I have a very clear way to put my offer in front of that market. And that's really what the uh the definition of product market fit is. Um a lot of people get it wrong. A lot of people think that, oh, I've sold my offer three times to like the same type of person, I've got product market fit. Well, no, you don't have a way to get that customer consistently and predictably. So therefore, you don't have you you might have the you know the market solution fit, but you don't have the way to generate that customer consistently. So let's talk about this now from an agency standpoint. Well, the first thing that um we need to realize on the agency front is businesses do not care about your efforts, they could not care less about how much time you spend on SEO, they couldn't care less about um how many blogs you wrote, they couldn't care less about how many hours it took. So even if you're selling, let's say, um, engineering uh talent, let's say, right? You're you're selling they do not like as a as somebody who buys services on the engineering side, I I couldn't care less about the effort that somebody puts. I care about whether or not this feature is going to be finished, right? And built. And and I think we need to put ourselves in that same mindset when we're selling marketing services uh to our clients. So it needs to be about results and not about effort. So now the question comes back to okay, if it's about results, then what is everything I need to provide my client in order to deliver on the result that I promise? Right. So a lot of times people think that, okay, well, I'm just gonna do SEO, and well, with SEO, you're gonna get more traffic. Okay, fine. But is that the result that your client wants? Is more traffic what they care about?

No, they don't care about the traffic, exactly because they because they'd be happy with a hundred people going to the website and a hundred people contacting them, and you know, and they'd be happy, or it could be 10,000 people come to the website and they've only had five people contact, and they're probably not going to be very happy, right?

So exactly they they don't care about the traffic, and that's I think a lot of times where people get stuck, they don't understand what is the result that I'm selling, right? And so the result can be usually in the kind of marketing space, we're talking about a lead or a sale, right? It's it's tip, it's one of the two, right? So it's like a marketing qualified lead or a sales qualified lead or an actual sale, depending on how far you're helping people um go down the journey. Now it always ends up being a customer, they only care about customers, but depending on what you're you're um delivering, you might only take them so far, right?

Yeah, it's like my paving companies that we work for that we do work for, like they they want a qualified lead, like whether it ends up turning into a thing, but if the person's seriously in the market, they're gonna hire someone, you know, they need their their driveway repaved or their walkway done or whatever it is, you know, then if I can get them that phone number and that person answers the phone and you know is legitimate, then after that it's it's kind of at least with those guys, but yeah, it's on them.

Exactly, right? And they're happy with that. And you need to be, in order to provide an irresistible offer, you need to be a hundred percent clear on what is that result that you're driving for that customer. What is that action that that person's going to take um for your client? Now, here's where a lot of times people make a mistake. Let's say a a like you're doing lead generation. Okay, so I'm gonna come up with an offer. Um, I'm gonna maybe do some Facebook ads, some Google ads, um, I'll build your landing page for you, I'll do this, I'll maybe have follow-up sequence, maybe I'll even set up your your go high-level CRM and and stuff like this. Um, and we're gonna just drive some some leads, right? Okay, I would now challenge you to say, okay, well, is the word leads the right word? Is uh is it appointments, is it consultations, is it demos? This now comes down to who is the person that I'm helping? Because that language is very, very important, right? So I could go and say, I'm gonna generate leads for anybody, right? Like, okay, funnelytics, your software company, I'm gonna generate you leads. Okay, but what you're thinking a lead is versus what I'm thinking a lead is uh Very different. Now, if you came to me and said, Hey Mikel, I'm gonna drive you free trials for your software. Now all of a sudden you're speaking the language that I care about, right? It's still technically somebody's name and email, it's still quote unquote a lead. They're not a customer yet. But now when you're positioning that irresistible offer, you're positioning it to me. Now all of a sudden I have that's the offer market fit, right? So those are kind of the two pieces that we need to really think about. And a lot of times we end up kind of sitting there and saying, Well, we're just gonna do leads, we do lead generation, we do this. Well, is that really what you do? If we were to take your 10 best customers and your best clients, and we were to group them based on on industry, we were to group them based on how big they are, um, how much they pay you, etc., I guarantee you all 10 of those will have slightly different businesses, right? And the system that you deploy to get them results will be slightly different. Maybe for one of them you had to use LinkedIn, maybe for another one, you had to use some Facebook ads and and lead forms there. Maybe another one you had to set up some follow-up sequences with emails and retargeting, etc. If I want to scale my offer, my goal in in an agency is always can I I like to think about it like this um can I take the same funnelytics map and copy, paste, paste, paste for every single client as much as possible, without tweaking any of those icons on the map, without changing whether there's this is LinkedIn or Facebook or there's an opt-in or oh, this one has a follow-up sequence. Because if I can do that, then that means that number one, um, it means I'm getting results because I'm you know I'm running the same thing. Number two, my team knows exactly how to deploy it over and over and over again, which means that it's productized at this stage. And number three, it doesn't require my brain, right? Now I don't have to come in as the marketing leader to be like, let me fix this. Because I'm going after construction companies. We do um, you know, we help them generate RFP proposals, and that is our game, and we're using that language, and we have the system to make it happen, and boom, we sell that over and over and over again. That's how I like to think about offers, and that's how you create the kind of that irresistible offer. It's like it works, the system works, we don't have to tweak it. It makes your phone ring, or it makes your it gets you RFPs or whatever that del that result that we're trying to drive is.

Yeah. Let's talk about funnels for a few moments here before we run out of time. Um, so let's uh, you know, I think um, like like I think it was great. We started with the kind of a definition of what it is. So we're we're talking about the same thing. Um, what are some of the pitfalls and things that you see like as people are are trying to implement their funnel or track their funnel? Like you talk a little bit about that and how funnelytics addresses some of those things.

Yeah. Um, so let the first thing that we should talk about is is what exactly should I be tracking? Uh uh a lot of times people track, we track like clicks and we track like page views and we track like you know, heat maps and stuff like this. Like what we should be thinking about is at the end of the day, we are in the business of again taking a stranger to become a customer, and that stranger is a person. So our job when we're thinking about tracking is all I care about is tracking the activity that this person has done, right? So it should be user-based tracking, not um page views, clicks, etc. Okay. So if your software, if your tool that you're using isn't tracking an a user and then looking at all the activity that that person has done, then you're not going to be able to track correctly. That's why Google Analytics moved to GA4 to be user-based tracking or G A um universal, as shitty as GA4 is, that's the one thing they got right, is is the type of tracking that you should um you should be doing. And then in terms of what am I tracking, okay. Well, I need to track the uh traffic sources that send people to my site, right? I need to track the pages that they visit, and I need to track the actions that they take on those pages. Actions can be defined as either um engagement actions, so a video view, a button click, um a scroll, like what are they doing on that page? Um, or the second category is what we consider a conversion action, a form submission, a calendar booking, a purchase, an order form purchase. These are things that show that this is changing that person. Okay. So now imagine I have a uh, you know, I have Johnny, and now I can I'm tracking those three core categories. I see, okay, Johnny clicked on a link from a Facebook ad, went to this page, then uh a minute later went over to this next page, uh, watched a video on this page, then went over to this other page, then filled out this order form, made the purchase. Okay, I've got a timeline of that, right? In order for then to us to then see the conversion rates to see if it's working, I need many of you. I need uh I need more than one Johnny. I need uh a bunch of you to kind of say, oh, look at these trends. Out of everyone who got all the way down to this purchase, it looks like that first thing that they all did was the Facebook ad. But actually, a bunch of them went over to these blogs and did these other things. And and now I can aggregate that data. Where fun analytics comes in is now I can visualize it on a canvas, right? I have all of this data, but now instead of having to look at spreadsheets or charts and try to decipher how all of these Johnnies did all these different things, I can just put it on a canvas and say, Let me see how many Johnnies went to this page and how many of them went on to purchase, and and I can just visualize all of that journey to see what that bottleneck or or that flow looks like.

That makes sense, right? And yeah, and and you might discover what the key actions are along the way. That they they oh, these most of the visitors visit these two pages, you know. I need to nobody, you know, or the people who visit this page end up bouncing out or or don't come back and purchase, right? And so you can really streamline it with your tool because it's so visual in terms of like seeing the flow and how they get from the traffic source all the way to the you know, form submission or the purchase or whatever it is.

Exactly. And then you could see, oh, it looks like man, most people go to this page and like they don't they just stop. And it's like, oh, well, that's that's when now you have to go and actually let's look at the offer, let's look at the messaging, let's look at some of the kind of more marketing-centric, you know, things, the the psychology, the copy, the the the imagery, the all that stuff to kind of say, well, why are they falling off? Like what what's why aren't they going to the next step? What isn't working here? Um, and then you find that out by analyzing the people who did go through. What did they do? You know, what's the difference, right? And the more you can kind of dive into that data, the easier it is to kind of tweak this over here, tweak that over there, tweak little pieces, and all of a sudden this funnel starts to work really well.

Yeah. Um and let's just talk for a moment as we wrap up here. Why don't we talk about um how to kind of get dream customers to listen in, right? Because, you know, we really want to have like high performing funnels, right? We want to get customers to listen in. We want to have higher conversions. Um, you know, a lot of things that we talk about in agency matter, which is like selling a growth plan, right? Like sell that 2500, that 3,000, that 5,000 a month thing. Oftentimes it needs some kind of maybe initial paid discovery or something like that, right? That we're kind of like taking them down this path where we're putting like a digital roadmap together for this client of how we're gonna get them all those customers that they need and stuff like that, and putting a plan together, painting that picture so that they're going from, oh, I thought I was just gonna pay a few hundred dollars for this, to like, hey, now I'm gonna do this uh, you know, this growth plan that's gonna really accelerate my business. So talk just a little bit about that part in terms of um, you know, kind of getting your your dream customer to listen in and so forth.

So um just so I'm I'm clear on the question, when you say listen in to like you're talking about like to buy into your your strategy, to buy into your services. What do you mean by listening in?

Yeah, I mean I would I was just um, you know, how can digital marketing experts gain actionable insights, right? From you know, doing doing uh using funnelytics, and I'm sure you have some success stories that you could share uh about that and just you know getting uh how I guess how folks have been able to use funnels to get their customers to listen in and really increase their conversions.

Yeah, so it's it's it's a good question. And um, in fact, it's kind of the reason I started funnelytics. So I started funnelytics back in uh the idea came to me in around 2016. And um what I when I was running my agency at the time, what I would do is I would kind of ex I would try to explain to a client the system, the funnel that we would build for them in order to get them that purchase. And like I tried all sorts of ways, I you know, presentations and and like trainings and stuff like this. And again, goes back to like they didn't want to learn, they didn't care, they just wanted to know like, does it work? And and do you have proof and how long is it gonna take? And and stuff like this. Um, and eventually I got to a stage where we were doing like these little maps on like a diagramming tool, like squares to say, like, we're gonna collect a lead here and and all that stuff. Uh and as that was going, I realized, okay, that's getting them to listen. That's getting them to buy in because they can see it. So I actually went on Fiverr and turned uh and I got just a little icon pack created of little page icons, a Facebook icon, and and then I would actually use PowerPoint to kind of draw arrows and um and I would create these maps. And when you show a client a strategy in a visual way, um that instantly makes them follow along, right? Like now when you're explaining what you're doing, it makes them understand, okay, what does this mean? What does this look like? Now, here's another hack that we did that makes it super easy to get them to say uh yes. It's great to show them the map, it's even better when you can put numbers behind the map, right? And you can go and say if we drive 10,000 people to this and kind of have it trickle all the way down, right? Exactly. We if we can go and say, hypothetically, if we spend five thousand dollars a month or ten thousand dollars a month, and and there's ten thousand people that go here and twenty percent go and put in their name and email, then and these numbers are across the board, this is how much money you'll make, right? When I can put numbers behind this picture, now all of a sudden, instantly they're like, I understand how this works. I don't need to know the intricacies of what you're gonna write and all that stuff, but I understand overall conceptually what you're going to do for me. So, what I used to do back in the day was um I would build a little spreadsheet and kind of just say, like, all right, here's formulas, here's like a little kind of like a calculator, like you said, like an estimate calculator, right? What we've built in Phonalytics, and there's a tool also called Giru that does um this similarly as well. Uh, but what we did in Phonalytics was we built that forecasting ability right onto that map. So now, even if I don't have my client yet, even if I'm not able to install tracking and see their actual data, I can show them that I'm data driven. I can show them that I'm result driven. I'm not just making up this stuff by saying, I'm gonna build you a funnel, I'm gonna, it's gonna look nice and all that stuff. I'm I'm selling them the proposition that when you work with me, you're gonna get a system that is centered around numbers that's gonna get you this outcome that you care about. Right. And that's when you can get them to buy in. That's when you can get them to listen. That's when you can like everybody else becomes irrelevant to them because nobody else is coming to them and showing them from a result standpoint.

That makes sense. So good, so good. And I and I love the hack too, like the visual part because clients can't understand the the what the ads are gonna do in the seo and the you know, the truth through the funnel and everything. Like they they don't they can't see that, right? They just they're just kind of like blah blah blah blah blah. But you know exactly. But when you when you show them that they're like, oh, okay, I you know they visually see it, you don't have to do it in PowerPoint anymore. You get funnelytics, it'll put all you can put all the numbers in, has the nice view and everything. I just that's so good. So uh wow. Um, I'm taking notes here uh for myself. Uh if you see me typhon away, but uh Mikel, uh anything that you want to leave us with here as we kind of wrap up? This this has been great.

Um, no, I mean honestly, uh I'll I'll summarize by kind of saying, like, uh to really scale um your agency, I think the Godfather offer is a great name. Like you have to know what is your offer. You also have to, you know, as you kind of mentioned, the growth plan and how do you kind of position and sell them a growth plan? Um, that's really what that funnelytics map is meant to be. It's like this is your growth plan. This is how we're gonna drive growth. Uh, and just be focused on results as opposed to the effort behind it. It's how you can package your prices significantly higher, it's how it becomes irrelevant. A little last hack I will say is when you talk to a client, the number one question you should always ask them is how much is a client worth to you? Because now when I do that little calculator, it becomes really easy for me to be confident to say, Oh, your client is worth $15,000 to you. All I need is one client a month and you break even on my services. So now I can charge you $15,000 a month. I can charge you $10,000 a month and feel confident because hey, here's the system, here's the numbers. If we hit this, like all you need is one to break even. But if we hit these numbers, you're gonna get 20. It's like it's a no-brainer. So that's why I charge you $10,000 a month. So if you have a hard time kind of increasing your prices, always think about that. It becomes really hard to increase your prices if you sell five dollar dog leashes. Right, right, right.

Margins are low.

Yeah, the margins are low, and you need to sell a lot of dog leashes for 10 grand a month.

Go.

I'm glad you and I aren't in the dog leash business. But uh Mikel, thank you so much. This has been really great, and I know it it's uh our listeners are gonna find it really helpful. So thank you so much. My pleasure. Um happy to be here. Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour podcast and a massive thanks to Mikkel for joining us. Our next live event is happening in San Diego in October, and it's gonna sell out. So if you'd like to get a taste of Mavericks Club and you want to tap into our amazing community of agency owners, coaches, training, uh, then you want to check out the link in the description and book your ticket for MavCon today. Okay, folks, remember to subscribe and please share this with anyone who you think may need to hear it. I'm Johnny Flash. Let's get to work.