By the time someone gets on a sales call with you, if they've seen your videos and they've heard your voice, as awkward as you might be and as self-conscious as you might be, they don't care what your hair looks like. Trust me, I'm a 51-year-old with a mobile. Welcome to the Agency Hour podcast, where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week on the Agency Hour, we're breaking down why people don't like being sold to, why you are ultimately the reason for your own success or lack of, and how you can close more deals with less resistance. So if you're looking to find more clients without feeling salesy, you want to build trust with leads so that they finally stop ghosting you, and you want to create a business where people want to buy from you and your team, then this episode is for you. Almost 100 years ago, Dale Carnegie wrote, A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. These days that would probably translate to, yeah, nah, I get it, but I still reckon you're wrong. And I'm not talking about today's political divide. I believe this perfectly describes why traditional high-pressure sales tactics just don't work, especially in today's market where buyers are more informed, skeptical, and resistant to being sold. There's this concept known as self-determination, where people who arrive at a decision on their own, or they perceive that they arrive at a decision on their own, are far more likely to defend that decision and take action on it. So let me ask you this: if you ever walked into a store and within seconds a salesperson pounces on you and says, Can I help you find something? And even if you do need help, your gut reaction is almost always to say, no thanks, I'm just looking. Why? Because we don't want the pressure of being sold to, right? We don't want to be in a situation where we have to reject someone or tell them that we're not interested because we don't want to hurt their feelings and it feels awkward. But we love to buy once we've found something that we want. I'll just let you process that for a minute. We love to buy once we've found something that we want. And the person who previously said, can I help you find something or can I help you as soon as you walked in the door, they've now become our best friend. They're wrapping up our new sweater for us, they're processing our payment, they're wishing us a nice day, and we're very comfortable having that interaction with them because we found the thing that we wanted to buy. So if you run an agency and struggle to close deals, it's not because your service is invaluable, it's because you're probably selling the wrong way or trying to close the wrong way or trying to convince people that this is what they need rather than allowing them to arrive at the conclusion on their own or at least allowing them to believe that they've arrived at the conclusion on their own. Because once they've decided they want to buy, and once they've decided they want to buy from you, sales is very easy. Now remember, every no you hear is feedback. So use that feedback to improve your sales process and your offer, your pricing strategy, every part of your agency. Use that feedback to improve so that you can get closer to what I call a offer market fit. I just want to park here for a moment and talk about offer market fit. In the startup world, it's very common to hear product market fit, where particularly in the software startup world, we're hacking together some kind of product. This is very prevalent right now in the AI space. You can go and find all these AI tools that are really not even in beta yet. They're still kind of trying to find if they've got something that people want to pay for. And, you know, you sign up for this piece of AI software, it's super cheap. You end up joining a Discord community and you're talking directly with the founder who's also the developer, and they're trying to iterate on the product and they're trying to get product market fit. Product market fit is where there is such high demand for your product that you don't even really have to do any advertising, and you are just scaling at what you know some of the incubators would say is a healthy rate of 7% a week. That's the kind of growth that those startup incubators want you to have if you're in the software world. Well, we're a service-based business, right? Agencies, we're a service-based business. So product market fit is almost impossible because I don't care how unique you think you are, if you're a digital agency and I put a thousand digital agencies in the same room from all over the world, they would find it very difficult to explain what it is they do that is truly unique from anyone else in the room. And that's because we don't have products, we're selling services, and by and large, we're selling the same service. We're either building websites, we're running ads for clients, we're doing SEO campaigns, we're doing email marketing, we're doing conversion rate optimization, right? It's all the same stuff. However, there is this concept that I've come up with called offer market fit, which is the way that you talk about your offer and the way that you talk about your services is very different based on the market that you're talking to. So for example, if you're talking to home contractors or tradies as we call them in Australia, you might be talking about getting more customers off Google without spending any money on ads. And a trade says, Great, I'm all ears. How do we do that? And of course, then we're just talking about a Google My Business optimization campaign that leads to a landing page and a, you know, highly optimized lead capture form, which then goes into an automated sequence where they get a text message and a phone call and we book the customer in to have a conversation with the trade, right? We're not going to talk about all the mechanics of that when we're talking to a tradie. We're just going to talk to the trade about getting more customers off Google without spending any money on ads. And that's an offer market fit. If you're talking to a high-ticket professional service provider like a financial planner, who charges $5,000 for a financial plan, you might be talking about an automation pre-framing sequence that means by the time clients are sitting with you on a Zoom call or in your office, they're already ready to sign the contract and they're very excited to start work with you. And what that is, is a series of video content and educational content or maybe a podcast episode that you use in between someone booking in a call and actually having the call with the financial planner so that you kind of indoctrinate that prospect into their way of thinking and the approach that the financial planner has and all of the common, frequently asked questions. So by the time they're sitting in front of the financial planner, it's a it's a layup. It's a fairly straightforward conversation to get them to sign up. They don't need to ask all the usual questions because those questions have already been answered with that automated content sequence that goes out, right? Now we're not going to talk about high-level or automations or workflows or active campaign or Zapra or whatever technology you're using. You're going to talk about warming prospects up. So by the time they're sitting in front of you, you can increase your conversion rate, which means you're getting better return on marketing effort and you're onboarding your, you know, your new client quota every month. That's what you that's the offer that we're making to a high-ticket professional service provider. Okay. So we're not talking about the services or the product, we're talking about the offer. The service is the service. It doesn't change. The way we talk about it changes based on the market that we're talking to. And so that's what I refer to as offer market fit. Okay. Now let's look at some of the common reasons that people don't buy. One of the most common ones is that's too expensive or it's not on our budget. And there's a couple of reasons that people say that. One, you might just be talking to the wrong end of the market. You might be talking to broke people who have no money. You might be talking to life coaches who are just starting out and have no money. You might be talking to unfunded startups who don't have any budget, right? Or you're talking to someone who does have the budget, but they don't understand what you're talking about. And there's no way for them to see that they're going to get a return on the investment that you're asking them for. Right. And so in that case, they will say that's too expensive, or we don't have the budget for that. We haven't allocated the budget for that. If people value what it is you do and they see a clear pathway to getting a return on that investment, they will allocate the budget for it. And I just want to park here for a second again and explain. If you're dealing with a business owner, it's much easier for them to allocate the budget. If you're dealing with a marketing manager and they need to get budget approval, then your marketing manager needs to go into bat for you. And that's just going to be a longer sales cycle because they need to get budget approval from upstairs, right? But if a client says to you or a prospect says to you, we don't, we have, we can't afford that, it's too expensive or it's not in the budget, you're either talking to the wrong end of the market or you haven't explained what it is you do, and they don't understand how there's a clear pathway to get a return on investment. Another common objection we get is people don't understand how good we are at what we do, and they don't understand that we can actually help them. And that's usually because you're talking about technical features and you're explaining what it is you do in jargon and language that they don't understand, and you're not communicating it in very clear, basic terms, where again, they can see a clear pathway to a return on investment, right? The other objection that we hear from agency owners is, well, I just don't like sales. Sales just isn't my thing. And I'll just say a couple of things here. One, if you genuinely believe that what you do is going to help your clients, then you owe it to your clients to get out of your own way and have a sales conversation with them and help them facilitate purchasing your services, right? Help them come to the conclusion on their own, or at least believe that they've come to the conclusion on their own that yes, they want to buy the thing and they want to buy it from you. Right. And also, the other thing I'll say about sales is if you're a business owner, you're in the business of selling. I don't care how icky you might feel about it, you need to get over that and you need to practice sitting in a seat and talking to another human and getting rejected because it's the only way you'll get better. And if you've survived up until now on referrals and word of mouth, then hooray for you. I have worked with over 4,500 agencies over the last 11 years, from people still driving for Uber, trying to get their side hustle off the ground to multiple seven-figure a year agencies. And I have seen every one of those agencies go through a quiet period where they say, I'm just not getting the referrals that I used to, and I have nothing in the pipeline. And they have no lead gen strategy, they have no sales process, and they're in panic because there's nothing in the pipeline and they're going to run out of money. So get over the ickiness of sales and realize that if you're a business owner, you're in the business of selling. And if you don't want to do sales at all, you have two choices. One, get a job, two, hire a salesperson to do it for you. And I'm guessing that most people listening to this podcast probably aren't in a position to hire a salesperson. And I mean that respectfully. I just know a typical agency that listens to this podcast, you're probably not in a position to hire a salesperson. If you are, great, happy days. Get on a call with us and we'll give you our sales system that you can have to train them. But if you're not in a position to hire a salesperson, then get over yourself. I mean that politely and respectfully. Get over yourself and get on a call with people and start pitching what it is you do and talking to them about what it is they need. And I'll help you do that in a moment. I'll give you some practical things you can do and start getting rejections. And because those rejections, those it's just all feedback, and you can use that feedback to get better and improve. Now, so I want you to ask yourself this: what are you doing that is making your clients hesitate from pulling the trigger? All right. And so here are three ways to improve your sales process and onboard more clients without doing any actual selling. The first is make the client feel like it's their idea. In fact, I'll give you a better idea. Don't make the client feel like it's their idea. Actually, help the client realize that it is their idea. So there's a there's a there's a pre-frame, by the way, uh little tip for the uh the reading list this week. If you haven't read Pitch Anything by Aaron Claff, it is absolutely uh required reading. Read Pitch Anything by Aaron Claffe. It's a fantastic book. Came out a long time ago. I actually hired Aaron at the time he wrote that book to come in and help me understand how to use his teaching to the uh small to medium digital agency world, and he did a great job doing that. The frame of the conversation is really important. If you go into a conversation with the assumption that you're there to sell something to a client, chances are you're gonna fall on your face every every time, right? If you go into the frame of a conversation, if you go into a conversation with the understanding that you're here to help the client, you're just here to help them. The the definition of the word consultant is to protect the client. So you're there to protect the client from making a bad decision. That's your job in a sales call. Okay. So instead of telling clients what they need, ask questions that guide them to the conclusion themselves. So for example, instead of saying you need a new website because your website currently is a uh turd and it takes 13 seconds to load in the browser, instead of doing that, which is tempting, I know, ask, hey, what would be the impact on your business if you were generating more clients off the internet without spending any more money on marketing? Right. Well, yeah, I mean, it would be, you know, it would be great. It would be fantastic if we could get double the amount of leads that we're getting and the conversions that we're getting without spending more money on ads. Okay, great. So what do you think is getting in the way? What's the roadblock? Well, it's our fucking websites and turd and it takes 13 seconds to load in the browser. Oh, gee, I hadn't noticed. I'm glad you mentioned that. What do you think you should do? And when the people say the problem out loud, they're more likely to take action. Well, we should fix the website. Well, that's convenient, isn't it? Fancy that. You're on a Zoom call with a web designer. What do you want to do? Would you like some help fixing the website? Of course I would. Great. Now, of course I'm being dramatic here for the sake of the argument. But it's very easy to just ask questions that you already know the answer to so that the client has an opportunity to just stop for a minute, think, answer the question, and then go, oh yeah. I guarantee you, if you and I were on a one-on-one call, I could ask you some questions about your business and point out some blindingly obvious things that you're either not doing well or that you're just completely avoiding, or some blindingly obvious things that you're doing badly because you just don't know any better, then you would say, yep, 100%. I need to fix all that stuff and I need help. And the same in my business. I have people look at my business all the time and go, dude, why are you doing that? Well, because I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm doing and I need help. Okay. If they come in and just tell me what I need to fix or what I should do, I'm less likely to take them up on that. Whereas if I come to the realization myself that yes, this is broke and I need help with it, then I'm more likely to take action on that. So number one, help the client understand it's their idea. And really, if they don't want to fix their business, what's it got to do with you? Who cares? You you've got your own business to run, right? You've got your own agency to run, you've got business development tasks to perform, you've got partnerships to do, you've got podcasts to listen to, you've got networking, you've got your tech stack and your favorite plug-in stack to optimize, you've got a whole bunch of things that you can do to fix your business. If you're talking to a prospect and they don't want to fix their business, who cares? Not my like whatever. Stop wasting my time. Let's get off the phone. It's your idea if you want to fix your business. You know what needs to be fixed, you tell me what needs to be fixed, and then we can have a conversation about whether or not we're the right people to help you. So, number one, help them understand it's their idea. Number two, lead with value, not features. See this happen all the time. Right? We don't talk a lot about the mechanics of how we work because you don't care. All you want to know is that we can help you grow your recurring revenue, build a team of A players to get you out of the dumb shit that you shouldn't be doing and make your agency more profitable so that you can take a holiday and come back and still have money in the bank. Right? Isn't that fantastic? Or, like I'm working about 12 hours a week now in this business, right? I work about four hours Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And occasionally I do a one-hour call on a Friday morning. That's it. I don't work Mondays, I don't work Friday afternoons, and I don't work after 2 p.m. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And this business is continuing to grow. It's stupidly profitable, and I'm hardly involved, right? Now, what we can help you with that outcome, but there's a whole bunch of ways that we do that that if I told you, would probably put you to sleep. You know, we do one-on-one mentoring and one-on-one coaching. We do a deep dive into your financials and set up this really, really complex and detailed Google spreadsheet for you to have a look at your financials line by line and figure out where you're spending too much money and why you're not hitting your sales targets and what your profit margins are, right? And if I went on and on and on and on and on, I'd put you to sleep. So I don't talk about the features. I don't talk about the one-on-one accountability that we have, the calls that you have every two weeks, and that we hold your feet to the fire and we make sure you're doing the work and the the decade worth of playbooks that we've got in the business that you can just swipe and deploy. I don't talk about that stuff because you're not interested in it. What you're interested in is the outcome. And that's what we talk about. So instead of listing features, tie everything back to a clear result. See what I did there? So I hope you're paying attention. So instead of saying we build websites, say we help businesses double their inbound leads from Google without spending any more money on ads. Oh, really? How do you do that? Well, I'm glad you asked. Let's get on a quick call and I'll show you. Then you get on a call, you have a look at it. I had a conversation with an agency the other day who said, I've got this client who's spending about $12,000 a month on Google Ads and they're sending traffic to their homepage. Right? And so this agency now wants to come in and take over their ad campaign and start setting ads to dedicated landing pages, which we know works. And so my point is there are opportunities, there is, there is an abundance, an unlimited number of opportunities to fix things for clients. But if you start talking, if you open your conversation with, hey, we can take over your Google ad campaign, they're gonna say, well, why? We're doing fine with Google ad campaign. Let's talk about the return on investment. Let's talk about your conversions. Would you like more customers from the same ad spend? Yes, please. Great. Let's get on a quick call and we'll show you how that works. Right? You don't talk about websites or CRO or, you know, page speed optimization or, you know, split testing, creative or copy. You don't talk about that stuff because one, they don't understand it. Two, they don't care. They just want the result. Okay? When you move house, do you really, do you know the brand of truck that your removalist uses to cart your furniture from your old house to your new house? And do you know that they have to go on a particular toll way and and pay a toll? And do you know the credit card they use to pay that toll to get your furniture to your new house? Of course you don't. Who cares? Do you know whether or not they recycle their cardboard boxes? No. Actually, I do because the last time we moved house, I orchestrated the whole thing and I used recyclable cardboard boxes because that's just one of my values and that's what I do. And then I told the removal company that that's what we were doing, and so they had to play by my rules if they wanted the job. Anyway, I digress. The point is, it doesn't, you know, there's four blokes in the truck. Do you know who drives? No, who cares? Do you know how long he's had his license? Of course you don't, right? You just want your furniture to turn up in one piece. Okay. So number two, lead with value, not features. Number three, stop chasing clients. Stop chasing clients, right? Make them come to you. I, 10 years ago, when I was starting out in Facebook groups and Twitter talking to WordPress freelancers and trying to help them understand how to overcome some of the problems that I was fixing in my freelance business. One of the blog posts I wrote was the definitive guide to getting WordPress clients for your agency or whatever it was, right? It's still a great blog post. It's still most of it's completely true. Maybe some of the tech and the plugins have changed and whatever, but it's still really good information. I'll maybe try and find a link to that and stick it in the show notes. But one of the things I said is stop chasing clients because they're not hiding from you. No clients are hiding from you. No clients are running away from you. They're just waiting to be served. So stop chasing them. We are bred in our DNA to run away from what's chasing us. Think of the saber-toothed tiger, right? And we are bred to chase what's running away from us. Think of the the deer that we're trying to kill and drag back to the cave to feed the family, right? We are bred to run away from what's chasing us. So if you are chasing clients, you will repel them. The best sales strategy and the best lead gen strategy is to be so valuable that people seek you out. And it is so easy to do that these days, to build authority with content, case studies, and results. It's so easy with AI and all of the tools available, you can produce incredible amounts of high-quality content, case studies and results using AI in a very, very short space of time. Set it up on a weekly posting schedule, email everyone you know about your content, and just share what you know and share how what you know is helping other clients. Because when people already trust you before they get on a call with you, you don't have to sell at all. Think about the last time you went to a GP, right? Think about the positioning of a of your local GP, your family doctor. You walk in and you go, Well, listen, doctor, I'm not really sure yet. You know, I've got this horrible rash that needs to go away. That's keeping me up at night. It's impacting every part of my life, but I'm not really sure that I need to fix it. And I'm not really sure that you're the right person, and I'm not really sure I can afford it. That's never a conversation you have with the doctor, is it? Why? Because they're a doctor. And what is it about doctors? Well, doctors are dealing with high stakes conversations where they are there to fix our health. So we trust them. When was the last time you asked your doctor if he's actually a doctor? Did you get that certificate on the wall from? From the University of Arizona, which is just like online. I can just buy that for a couple of hundred bucks. Or are you actually a doctor?

Right?

When was the last time you asked your doctor there? Never. I started asking my doctor questions a few years ago when I was experimenting with keto and intermittent fasting, which I still do, by the way, and it's been amazing for me. I love it. And I was talking, and I've just found a new GP that I saw a couple of weeks ago because every doctor I spoke to was like, ah, well, you know, I'm not really a herbs and spices kind of guy, mate. I don't really talk about nutrition. I was like, what? I'm 50, mate. You should be talking to me about nutrition. Because if you don't talk to me about nutrition, the fastest way for me to develop a whole bunch of health problems in my 50s is to have a shit diet. Drink too much beer, eat too much bread, eat too much sugar, put on a bit of weight, get pre-diabetic, and then all of a sudden, I'm coming here every week for blood tests and all sorts of shit because I'm not looking after myself. You know why? Because doctors have a two-hour lecture on nutrition in six years of training. Right? So I found a new GP. Anyway, I digress. So uh most of the time we don't ask our doctors questions because they have the authority positioning. And the way that you, obviously, we're not doctors, we don't have the white coat or the stethoscope. So the way that you can build authority is through content, case studies, and results. So just to recap, the three ways to improve your sales process and close more deals without selling is I want to do this in reverse order, actually. One, produce content, case studies, and results that bring people to you. And if you are not on a social platform yet, let me give you the shortcut here. The social platforms that I would choose, because you are typically selling services to businesses, the social platforms that I would choose if I was starting out right now would be YouTube and LinkedIn. And the reason I say YouTube is because video is the best form of content that you can produce. And if you are just that self-conscious that you hate being on camera, you don't need to be. Right? You can just do voice and AI, slides, b-roll, whatever, right? And if you really hate your voice that much, go to one of the AI tools like HeyGen or ACool or Synthesia or whatever, whichever one you like, and just use an AI voice with some slides and a screen share, right? My preference for you would be that you actually make video using Loom or one of those, um, one of those products. In fact, uh if you want a recommendation these days, I wouldn't use Loom, I would probably use Teller.tv, T-E-L-L-A.tv. It's much better than Loom. And just share your screen and share stuff that you know is working. And the reason I say that is because by the time someone gets on a sales call with you, if they've seen your videos and they've heard your voice, as awkward as you might be and as self-conscious as you might be, they don't care what your hair looks like. Trust me, I'm a 51-year-old with a mohawk, right? And even if they do care, whatever. I don't give a shit. They're not if they really like if they're hung up on the fact that I've got a mohawk in my 50s, then they're not my client, right? They're just having the wrong, we're having the wrong conversation. They don't really care how squeaky your voice is. All they care is that you're confident in your knowledge. So make a bunch of videos and put them in the bin. That's the way you get better at video. Because once you make a video, you build massive trust very quickly. But then also you've already got the text, you've already got the audio, you've got screenshots of the video you can use for social posts and thumbnails, right? Put them on YouTube because YouTube videos will grow over time, whereas a Facebook post has about a 24-hour, you know, shelf life. And then share those videos on LinkedIn. LinkedIn post has about a week-long shelf life. YouTube, those videos will be there for years and they will constantly help you grow authority and bring in leads for years to come. In fact, YouTube is the only platform that actually grows and doesn't die over time. Okay. So that would be my recommendation. One video a week on YouTube, share it on LinkedIn. Use something like Opus Clips to cut it up into a bunch of shorts and social posts and then stick that on LinkedIn, YouTube, and your email list. Okay. Number two, lead with value not features. So I'm doing this in reverse order, right? Produce the content, make them come to you. Number two, lead with value not features. Don't talk about the things that you do, talk about the outcomes that your clients are going to get. Number three, help the client understand it's their idea, it's their decision to pull the trigger. All right. You do this, you'll close more deals, uh, and you can thank me later. Now, as you may or may not know, our paid discovery method helps agencies get paid up front to diagnose client needs, while our growth plan training teaches you how to turn that paid discovery client into a high value recurring revenue service that keeps clients invested long term. The truth is, we can talk about growing your recurring revenue until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, only you can make it happen. You are the most important factor in your own success or failure. Right? It's like joining a gym and then just not turning up. It's like joining a book club and not reading the book, right? You join a gym and it feels like progress. You buy a Peloton or an exercise bike or a treadmill and it feels like progress. But if you just hang your clothes on it, you never use it, you don't show up, you don't put in the reps, you won't see the results. Okay? Waiting for motivation to strike is the same as waiting to feel ready to work out. Okay, it doesn't work that way. The best way, by the way, to start exercising is just to put on your runners. Because what happens is your subconscious goes, oh, we're wearing runners, aren't we? That means we must be going for a walk or a run. And before you know it, you're out the front door going for a walk. Don't walk around the kitchen going, oh, I'm gonna go for a walk in a minute. Yeah, I'm gonna go for a walk in a minute. You just have to go and put your runners on. Just go and change your shoes and watch yourself walk out the door and go, Jesus, who are you? And what have you done with Troy? You're going for a walk, right? Once you start moving, once you see a little progress, motivation kicks in. And it's the same when it comes to your agency. If you're stuck in project-to-project chaos, it's not because of the market, the economy, the election, bad clients, because you haven't made the decision to change. And here's the real kicker action creates motivation, not the other way around. So if you're waiting to feel ready before taking the next step, you'll be waiting forever. All right, start taking action now because clarity, confidence, and momentum come from movement, not overthinking. So, what's the difference between just following a sales script and building trust? Well, scripts focus on convincing, whereas trust is built through collaboration, not persuasion. So a traditional sales script is all about overcoming objections and closing the deal, right? Paid discovery, on the other hand, is about helping the client understand their own problems more clearly and seeing you as the obvious solution. If you here's the thing that most people don't understand: if you help a client get clarity on their problem, they will automatically attribute you as having the solution. So the key shift here is that in trying to, instead of trying to sell a website, SEO or design, you're inviting the client into a structured process where they pay to get clarity on their goals, their challenges, and the opportunities in front of them. And a sales script often feels like a pitch, right? Clients can sense when they're being led toward a predetermined yes, right? You know, all that kind of, you know, ask a question where they can only answer yes, you know. So do you think more clients would have a positive impact on your business? Yes. Would you like more clients without spending any more money on ads? Yes, of course I would. Right? People know they're in a sales script when you start asking questions like that. Whereas paid discovery is a collaborative experience where you and the client work together to define what they truly need. The psychology behind it, when a client is actively involved in shaping the solution, they're more committed to it because it feels like their idea, right? Go back to point one before. You help them understand this is their idea. And finally, growth plans, at the end of paid discovery, growth plans make it easier for a client to say yes. Because after paid discovery, the next step is a growth plan, a structured, ongoing strategy that keeps clients engaged and drives long-term success in their business. So instead of trying to convince a client to sign a retainer, which is really time for money and a block of hours, they naturally progress into a growth plan because they see the value first hand. It's all laid out in front of them. This is what we're going to do over the next 12 months. And this is why agency owners using growth plans close at an average of 85% with less friction because clients don't feel like they're being sold. They feel like they're being supported and they feel like they're buying the right solution. Go back to the top of the episode. You walk into the store and a salesperson says, Can I help you? And you go, Yeah, you can get out of my fucking way and let me have a look at the jackets. And when I find one I like, I'll let you know. Okay. So try this. On your next sales call or the next call you have with a potential client, ask more questions than you answer and watch what happens. Hey, I don't need to sit here and tell you why pay discovery and growth plans are the obvious solution to growing your agency's recurring revenue because when you're ready, you'll already know. When that time comes, you can book a call and come and have a chat with us. Until then, keep focusing on building trust, guiding your clients to the right decision, and creating a business where people want to work with you, not because you convince them, but because it just makes sense and it's the logical next step. Hey, I'm Troy Dean, and remember 35% of the people who use personal ads or online apps for dating are already married.