So I think it's worth sometimes to just say let's let's spend a week together. I'll I'll buy a week of your time if I was a client to get your best people here sit together all day in a meeting room putting uh stupid drawings up on the wall and and bouncing off ideas and stuff like that. And then you bring in the production company the cool guys, but you know the idea will work.

Welcome to the agency hour podcast where we help web design and digital agency owners create abundance for themselves, their teams, and their communities. This week we're joined by Casper CS Blue, all the way from Copenhagen, Denmark. Casper is the CCO at Site, and in this episode we're gonna be unpacking some surprising insights from the in-house marketing barometer report, where he interviewed over 1,000 people, and what it reveals about the evolution of in-house teams, the pros and cons of today's agency models, and how to position your agency as an essential partner, not just a vendor, and why treating your own agency like a client could be the key to unlocking long-term growth with your clients and so much more. I'm Johnny Flash. Stay with us. Thank you for having me. Glad to have you, man. I'm so great to have you on here. I I gotta ask because I know you're in Denmark, and um we have a lot of listeners that are always, you know, that are in small areas as well and have to kind of be able to reach outside their area. How have you grown? I mean, just give us a little little insight into like how you've kind of grown your, you know, your audience and just your clients and everything, being, you know, having to go global, I guess.

So I'm from a traditional agency background, which is small in Denmark. We are like uh five million people here, 5.5 or something like that. So you have to be global. Um I used to be head of creative at Mersk, big uh logistics company, and that's global, right? So that's uh a lot of um a lot of containers, a lot of offices, a lot of people around the world, uh, and then some some other uh global-ish companies that I've been working with. So I think it's it's it's that's how it ended up. Uh our company is is based in in Denmark, uh uh, but we also have offices in Germany and the UK and uh Sweden and Norway. So it's it's like Northern Europe uh based.

And that's I think that's how we we scaled. Yeah, I love it. I have to give you my quick merch story since you brought it up. We uh for my wife and I went on an anniversary trip a year ago, and we were staying in like a tiny house, and it was made out of like some merch shipping containers that had been completely like retrofitted into like a nice place to stay, but it was we were in a shipping container, a merch shipping container for the first day.

Yeah, I remember I think that thing started back. I it's been 10-12 years since uh since I was there. And I think that kind of idea started back then that people started buying these old containers because they they were actually getting, I think they had like a I don't know, 20-year uh life cycle before they they actually have to sh do something else with them. So that's a lot of containers up there.

Yeah, yeah, it was it was great. Well, cool. So um I I gotta ask also about your um, I know you're work you're working on your in-house uh marketing barometer report that's due to come out soon. And I was wondering if you could give us a little uh give a background on it, and then if you could give us some little sneak peek takeaways, I'd love to to hear some of the insights that you're gaining from from all the marketing research you've done.

Yeah, thank you. So I know I'm in dangerous territories here uh because it's an agency podcast and I'm talking in-house. Uh, but one of the interesting things, I think, uh, so the the the level of companies that has in-house agencies is is around we have 65%. I saw a Boston Consulting Group uh report from last year saying 72%. It's a bit difficult because it's not as easy as you would say. Some of them they have um kind of in-house agencies kind of grow in two ways. Sometimes it's deliberate. Uh so people sit down, they do a lot of math, and they say we're gonna do this, and we build it, and put a they come up with a name like uh Heinz, they have the the kitchen, Kraft Heinz, they have the kitchen. But the other half of them is just you know organically growing by somebody in marketing, say we need a graphic designer, can you just hire someone in or a social media manager? And so it's and and marketing is not it's it's it's not a fixed thing. Sometimes it's a lot of web design, that's kind of like one spectrum, and the other one is copywriting, classical uh agency uh discipline, so to speak. So so we we kind of say if you have more creative uh developing skills in there, we call it uh an end-in-house agency. Uh that's not really an insight into the report, it's just to say how we kind of mention it. It's not uh as simple as as such. Um I think one of the really interesting things this year in the report is the growth in taking in more creative tasks. And now I'm really putting myself out there in this agency podcast. Uh, because previously when we looked at it, it's like there's been like three or four waves, so it started out by being purely production, just something about scaling things, having graphic designers to uh to versioning brochures and something like that. And then you had the the social media area from around the 2005-ish and coming on, where you brought in in the beginning just organic social media content people and so on, and then more paid and performance thing. And what we're seeing in the last five years is is is more creative people, so kind of still more strategic creative uh art directors. We can see that in the titles, there are more chief creative officers and so on. That said, it also seems like there's a kind of a wave going the other way saying maybe that's too much because we still need that outside in perspective where you actually hire someone who worked with a lot of different brands that has a more diverse uh look at how things uh uh should be done or can draw in inspiration from outside. But that's uh one of the interesting things, and of course, I mean I have to say AI and tech is really, really, really big. Uh everybody is testing things out. I think right now it's it's it's it's the AI agents uh or or at least automated flows where you can build um avatars that you can. I just had a meeting today with uh one of our agencies that want to build local employees talking in their local language, uh, but just typing it in. And it's the quality is getting there. So so that's really one of the things.

So in interview, so if I if I'm hearing you correctly, in interviewing the these thousand-plus marketing professionals um in in for your report and kind of what you've put together, you're seeing uh an increase in in-house marketing teams at large companies that they're they're growing their teams, or if they didn't have an in-house marketing team, they're adding those. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

Yeah, so so the growth has been coming from the law for the last seven, eight years. It's like it's flattening out now at a some kind of 70% level. Um, but it's the but the the the the type of do of things they're doing is shifting. So it's more moving up the scale from just being graphic designers, just no offense. I used to be a graphic designer. Yeah, no offense to any of the graphic designers listening, right? Yeah, so that's me actually. To to be more creative strategists uh and and and something like that. Uh hiring in some companies are hiring in chief creative officers or head of creative uh uh to oversee the way that they use uh external agencies. So I think that's that's an interesting direction.

And I think a lot of people listening would be potentially that external agency that's providing some kind of you know creative support, whether it's you know, uh one of our agency mavericks is one of our mavericks is a video production company working with big, huge brands, you know, uh household names here in the US at least, in terms of that, and they're doing video production stuff for them. Obviously, they're not their full marketing arm for the you know, the these brands have big in-house marketing teams, but they're being hired to do you know video production or uh might be doing some kind of e-commerce website or this or that for the brand, but it's just one piece of the overall marketing engine for some of these companies. So I think that is, you know, a lot of the folks listening to this would be kind would be supporting some of those in-house marketing teams with some of the stuff that they're doing.

Yeah, I mean, especially say like production companies, we don't see a lot of that. We do see uh so Europe is definitely smaller. I'm from smaller countries, so we don't see I haven't seen anyone bringing in big production companies, to be fair. Maybe you know, that one I'm not bringing them in-house, they're using them, they're just yeah, they're using them. Uh so so so they're using production companies. Sometimes they do skip the agency, so they have the creative, you know, control in-house and go directly to a production company. Or but they might hire in those, you know, uh one-man band uh things with a camera that can do content uh on the go. It's not really new, but it's it's it's it's it's it's growing up at video, of course.

Yeah. So for those agency owners that are listening that are maybe have some clients that have in-house marketing companies that they're supporting, like how do they make themselves more valuable to those in-house marketing teams? Because I think you know that that's a real issue that a lot of us face, you know, in terms of working with some of these clients.

So, what what we're doing and what we're seeing is actually more collaborative. So instead of going, you know, have a brief, go back, and then go back with uh the cardboard and say, ta-da, like the madman thing, uh, there's a lot of collaboration, uh, sitting together with the marketing team, coming up with ideas together, bouncing them off on a really early stage, uh, voluble stage where you present your uh your your sketches and something like that. Um because I think that's one of the things when we look into the report that that marketing people are are getting a bit tired of. That's the whole you know, somebody coming from the outside and working with this for for two weeks and then tell me how my business is. Uh and we of course we all love the old you know madman thing, but um uh but in reality it's the the the people working with marketing in the companies are pretty skilled normally, they know their business. Uh so that kind of collaboration where you bounce things off um is is a thing we're seeing right now. So I would say, you know, focus more on being the creative partner because that's still a thing. Play together. AI hasn't replaced us yet, right? No, but I mean you can have we use a lot of AI, but it's it's like it's like having a bad assistant, right? You you get you ask for 20 ideas and you get 19. That's totally you know bad. But one of them might spark something that you can use, um, but it's faster and better, and so on. So so so that way where you you as the creative people, you create person, you can you can see those um yeah, those ideas, uh those needles in the haystack, so to speak. So so I think that's that's where I would that's where we're focusing. Uh that's being more creative or more production, uh not trying to be the full-scale agency that can help with everything and do anything.

Yeah, I love that. And one of the things that we teach in our agency Mavericks program is about you know doing some kind of digital roadmap with a client to really understand where they're at, how we can collaborate with them, and then putting a plan together to be able to work with them. I think that that's I think in the context of what we're talking about, that's really helpful. I'd love to shift gears slightly because I know you also have a a production house that's got hundreds of people doing all kinds of things from you know, uh building making the videos to doing the SEO to doing the design, the quality checks and stuff. Um, I we you know, we all have different size teams in terms of people listening to this and stuff, but I think we all have similar struggles, regardless of whether we got five people on our team, 20 people on our team, 50, 100, whatever, um, you know, in terms of like getting people to have the same passion and the quality that we do as you know owners or designers or managers. Um, and so talk if a little bit of you know that of kind of what you've seen like work and how you get so many you know people moving in the right direction and caring the way that you care and that kind of stuff. I'd love to just hear any insights you have there.

Uh so I I might go in two different directions, but we do have a big production company in uh in Vietnam. Uh we do a lot of all the work for Lego uh boxes and 3D motion uh on the website and and so on. And it's just, I mean, when we talk about in-house, there's also you know, some things make sense to have you know proximity, you can stand and look on the screen, but some things, I mean, you don't have to look on the screen, something rendering uh or doing this uh uh 360 churn or something. That's way better to have that in a in a place where you can have bigger computers, um and of course the salary is is different, it's not that different actually, but um but there's a different work ethic to it. Um and then it's a lot about quality and and and control. What one of the things to go on the other direction uh that we talked about on when I started out in-house was it used to be you know going in-house like the dead burial ground for for for creative people, you know, uh slowing down. Um but I don't think it's it's like that. I think there's a lot of great creativity coming from knowing the brand better and only working with with one brand and actually going, you know, digging deep into it. It's it's mostly when you work with a complicated product. So we work with a lot of B2B companies, or yeah, I worked at Mersk, so understanding international trades and different uh commodities, how you know fish go from one market to another, how the car industry or automotive industry is is built up, something like that that would take the agency a long time to understand. So it can be in the in the complex area, or it could be a lot of different markets, different languages where uh you need to understand how translation or cultural differences in terms of working with you know yeah, markets. Um but what I mean I I go around to our agencies and show them the best of can, all the Super Bowl commercials, and talk about why these are great. Most of them, or at least the great ones I pick out, uh talk about creativity and why it's important because I think that's the purpose of what we're doing. That's creativity. Uh I mean it it's not showing more to people. There's I think there's plenty of content out there. There's probably enough content out there. You don't need to produce more, you need to do something that sticks. That's why that's why we do marketing in the first place. So so so we talk a lot about creativity and better do better and and more creative, and something that that you recognize um than just doing a lot of stuff. You can't re-bore people to buy your products as uh I think burn back. Well, that's it. I'll spend one bind. I don't know.

Umity over quantity is what I hear you saying, right? In terms of like there's plenty of junk out there. We can have AI spit out all kinds of, like you said, 20 examples, and there might be one decent one in there, but I think it's trying to figure out like what's like you said, what's really gonna stick, what's you know, spend more what I hear you saying is spend more time on less stuff and make it really good and memorable and stand out than kind of just spitting out a bunch of stuff, right?

Yeah, and I think and that's why the agency is still relevant. I think uh yeah, talking about AI, so we do I just came out of a meeting today, you know, building uh uh avatars that can speak local languages better uh than uh hiring in an actor and setting up everything. But the one recording we're doing has to be great because it's better for us to do uh a Polish version or a Spanish version or a French version with someone that looks natural and speaks French or Polish or Spanish or Chinese, uh than just creating more stuff that's not really interesting or picking it, you know, eyeballs at all. But on the other hand, I think you still need to do that one thing that people will notice, and maybe it's not even digital, maybe it's something in the real world where where you know people will will take notice of it in in reality and and and and that's just one idea that's that's just great. I think that's where the industry is going at the moment.

Yeah. Some of these clients that you have, I imagine you've been working with a while, you know, in terms of some of these big brands. Like how do you how do you continue to cultivate some of those relationships so that the client that we love right now, who's a big client for us, is still the a client that we love and a big client for us, you know, two, three, four, five years from now?

So uh we have like at least two things we do. So one of them is the really boring part, so that's the math. So we track everything in our site system, uh, where it's it's like Monday, it's just not putting off Monday, but it's just better. Uh so tracking how many proofs, uh, everything is in control. Instead of emails going back and forth, uh, you have all the communication by all the tasks there. Also, when you move them back and forth forth from Vietnam or to the UK or something like that, it's the same system. But in that system, we also time track and we use that for resource booking so we know how long things take. That's the boring part. That's telling people how much did we do this month, you know, how much did you actually get from using us uh instead of trying to do it yourself. Um, the other part is is getting that recognition. So that's by you know, classical advertising agency stuff, get recognition, win awards, do something that people talk about, um, because I really believe that that still works. So doing something spectacular and get you know some kind of recognition for it, uh, you know, PR materials, awards, uh talk about it like I'm doing now. Uh it's it's difficult when you sit close to people to say, Oh, I have this great idea. So, yeah, but I also have an idea. And you have to, you know, prove that you are actually good.

So it's it's um it's it's like you're saying, like build your keep continue. Um do I hear you say continuing to build your own authority as you're working with the client so they value the input that you're giving? Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh it's actually my old uh boss at Mersk who used to say this and said, People here, they don't really know if you're good or bad. But if you get external recognition, uh you're uh shortlisted for something, you win an award, you're you know, you're talking at some event or something, then people say, Oh, that guy, he's he's probably good. So so that's really important when you have an in-house agency to get that external recognition. Um and of course, measure that you know what you're doing is is is is working, uh, has an effect, of course.

So when you're working with a brand like uh just to take it a step further, when you're working with a brand like Lego or Jaguar or whatever, and you're you're doing different things for them, and uh hopefully it's a good relationship and you're wanting to keep doing work for them, how how do you how how does this play out like in in a real sense then what what we're talking about with kind of building those client relationships for the long term?

So so it could be two things. So one of them is like doing the best of can show and tell people why is this great. Uh so so actually showing something great. Also, in I like to invite people in. It's of course a bit uh scary sometimes, but coming into that room and say, okay, let's spend the whole the entire day just putting up ideas for the next campaign on the wall. We only have white paper and a black uh marker to to draw something, and hopefully I'm good enough, and the people I have is good enough to do the better ideas. But sometimes my shitty ideas spark something. The client and he will draw a better drawing or do a better idea than me. But I think that's fine. That's in the collaboration. Um, so so so trust in in that that you can actually bring that process in and do it together with with the client or yeah, whatever in the marketing team. Um, I think that's uh that's also a way to show that you you know what you're doing, that you're willing to to show up with with nothing and and and develop ideas on the spot. Um, of course you go back and refine them and twist and turn and all the you know copywriter twist and turn the words and and do the the the the better side of it, but but yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so client collaboration goes a long way in terms of kind of building those relationships and then valuing you as a partner and then also not holding your own ideas too tightly, right? Because sometimes we get so attached to our design, our our concept, whatever, and like that may or may not be the best one. And so being willing to say, like, hey, I'm just throwing this stuff out there, and if the client kind of or somebody on the team or whatever has other ideas, like not holding our stuff too tightly, right?

Yeah, and and one of the things I've I've seen is is when you go back to the computer, and I've seen that with I'm old now, so with some of the younger people, you know, they they sit back and you know, you're not allowed to watch their screen and they do everything perfect, beautiful. It really looks like a like an ad. But they invest so much in developing it that they also end up loving that idea, even though the idea is bad. So I would rather have them draw it really bad, badly with a with a mark marker, put up a headline that's spelled wrong or something, and put it up on the wall. Because if it's funny, then it will also be funny when you bring in the industrial item magic and do uh the whole 3D uh AI thing.

No, but you bring up such a good point because I think so often we don't involve, we don't involve the client or whoever needs the approval early enough, and we get concepts too far down you know the track, and then we're like, hey, what do you think of this really polished thing? And like, this is not what I wanted at all. And you're like, oh shoot, I gotta start all over, you know, versus kind of getting that input early and often. Um, I think that that goes a long way in terms of getting the buy-in right from the client and the and the direction correct so that we're not having to waste a lot of time and effort.

Yeah, I have I have like an old boss coming in, and we were everything was was up there, and he said, Well, at least we know what not to do, and then he then then rather have it like batch sketches and trying to explain what's going on and something like that. And I think I mean I don't know if this is true, it's just an assumption, but I'm most of the people I know working in marketing, it's not because they love spreadsheets or doing budgets and something like that, it's because they actually fell in love with the ideas and creativity. So so most of the time I think they they actually like to be involved and and work you know side by side. They they know that this is what you do, so so you're probably good at this. You're probably also better at drawing or you and you prepare, of course. You have some you have your tools and your methodology in terms of how you create ideas and how you do this, how you do the persona or the user journey and something like that. But if you do it together, uh I think it's there's also more much more buy-in from the from the client. And I think that's one of the benefits by in-housing, but it's not owned by in-housing. Any any agency could could do that and actually, you know, collaborate more.

Yeah. Well, and you bring up another point too, in that like, you know, there's something valuable about being in person with someone and in the room and collaborating, but we're in such a digital age that more and more like my client I just see over Zoom or whatever. And I just, you know, it's like mostly or or completely digital. Um, but there is something valuable um when you can kind of just make the time, whether it's like a few hours or part of a day, and especially for your top clients that you really want to build those connections with, you know, sharing the meal or having the brainstorm session or whatever, like there's just something different about it, isn't there, that when you're in person than when it's all I think so, and I think it's it's worth the travel.

So I live two or three hours away from from our offices because they're all all over the place. So and I think it's worth the travel. Also, it it's kind of maybe it's counterintuitive, but sometimes it's it's better to take it slow than and and and create that one idea, but in a very low involvement uh space where you draw stuff and you and you really like that idea. We did we did a campaign for Shundai, and they they had to be out next week with uh campaign, outdoor campaign. Um but we did it that way and so oh but but can we see something? So we have plenty of time to do the nice stuff. I mean it's just a photo of a car anyway. It's the it's the headline or the idea or something that um so but but if we start by shooting and start by doing everything and we can't decide, then we should spend a lot of time going back and forth on a final product that's not really great, maybe, and try to fix something. So I think it's worth sometimes to just say let's um and we I used to work with with agencies that way and at at some of the companies I was in. Uh let's spend a week together. I'll I'll buy a week of your time if I was a client to get your best people here uh sit together all day in a meeting room, putting uh stupid drawings up on the wall and and bouncing off ideas and something like that. And then you bring in the production company, the the the cool guys, but you know the idea will, you know, will work. Yeah, yeah.

You know, one thing you got me thinking about too is with when we're talking about with the in-house marketing and stuff like that, is that you know, all the agency owners that are listening to this podcast, we have our clients that we're doing work for, and they may or may not have in-house agencies and we're collaboration, whatever. But then there's also there's also our own marketing as an agency, which we're tending to use our in-house, you know, in-house team. Um, and we often are not that great at it because we're so busy building the content for the clients and being creative with them and collaborating with them, that then like we are like, oh shoot, we haven't put out any of our own creative content and stuff like how do you wrestle, you know, how do you kind of deal with that?

Uh I do it at night. No, no. No, but for for us, it's a lot about doing the reports, writing books, talk about uh what we are doing and and and the benefits of that. Of course, I really trust that I believe in that model, but I don't think it's the only model out there. I think it it's it's it's a great fit for a lot of companies, but not for all. Uh so so that's I mean, it's like showing up in podcasts and be challenged, uh, but it's also interviewing these actually, it's like almost 2,000 people, but we have to discharge a lot of them because we were you know not sure they were the right and they didn't fit. So it's also a lot about talking with a lot of decision makers, uh uh from from different markets, different positions, not only marketing, uh saying what are they really looking for? Why are they not bringing it in? Why do they want to bring it in? What kind of the business makes sense? What challenges are they facing? Um because um something like brief quality, it's always a problem. It's been a problem for the last 20-ish years I've been in marketing that the briefs are bad, but it's not getting better when you sit next to someone. I mean, when you're an agency, you can bit a bit uh be a bit of a drama queen and say, I can't work with this shit. You have to do it better. But you you you can't really be that guy when you have to go down and have lunch with people afterwards. You then you have to behave a bit differently. Um, so so there are pros and cons of of all the models. Um you you tend to get you know a bit lazy when you're in-house, uh doing something that works last time, and then we don't disagree, and everything's good, and you know, I can I can leave early. I'm in Scandinavia, right? Um and and and you also get sometimes you get a that tunnel bash vision, some like echo chamber where we agree on certain um certain words, a way of saying it, and say, Oh, that's how how the rest of the world sees things. And it's not, I mean, I worked at a company where we invented words ourselves that we kept saying to each other, this is for the that kind of guy. And then somebody, I mean, really last minute said, Is that a thing?

Does anybody even know what we're talking about? Yeah, it it wasn't. Yeah, well, I think I think you're right though. It's easy to kind of like coast when you're doing your own marketing or kind of get in a rut. And I think trying to treat our own business like it's a client and kind of putting that same energy into marketing ourselves and our business as we're putting into our clients. I think that's really important. Uh, one of the things that we've done is we've tried to build in some of those things you were talking about, like, hey, this is what worked really well over here, or here's the case study, or here's the the portfolio thing, or whatever, like into our kind of final steps of our process so that when we finish a project, you know, we can actually get the word out that we did this project and put it in our portfolio or do a video or case study or a blog post on here's what works really well on this and here's why we did it this way. You know, I think that kind of stuff goes a long way, right? In terms of kind of positioning you as an expert, like we were talking about earlier, and then also, you know, kind of um building those connections and and getting yourself out there to get more, you know, business and stuff.

I I totally agree. And it's it's it's one of those things that we always keep forgetting. Yeah, the whole thing. Oh, so oh, we have to do a case story, but oh, that's too late now, the it's out now, and you know, we should have asked for it in the beginning. Uh afterwards, that's always something, and then you move on, and yeah, so so so having that checklist of saying when we do this campaign, we also want to, you know, have a case story, we want to have the something we can show, and yeah, the old case uh thing.

So as we're wrapping up, um, I'm curious where do you see like marketing in general like kind of headed in the next in the coming years, you know, because there's been there's been so much, I feel like, shifting even just in the last few years. Where do you see it heading in the coming years? Um, I'd be curious on your take on that. I think I mentioned a bit earlier.

I think one of the big things, I mean, everything is going to be AI, and and everything is possible. Uh yesterday the new open uh open AI model came out and it looked amazing. You could really do crazy stuff like yeah, putting jackets on people and it looked real. Uh, you can have AI doing a lot of analysis. What I think is we're getting to very soon is like a sea of sameness. So, you know, you will raise the the bottom, but only to a certain level where you will have all your perfect written content on all your landing pages and so on, and that's that's fine, it's better than not having it. Uh, you can be on every language you want to be on, and so on. Uh, so I think the the the the base level will be fine, but I think it's gonna be creativity that stands out. Yeah, yeah, and I think if if if if anything is possible, and it is right now, you can see on a screen everything could be AI, you can do everything that's magic. I I mean I can do things like that's better than a sci-fi film from just five years ago or something like that, just with my iPhone. So I think what's really going to kick off is is something happening in the real world, to be honest. Doing some sort of installation or happening of I wouldn't say flash mob, that's like a 10 years old, maybe more. That's what um, but but I think that that's that's at direction.

I think something yeah, um that's my best guess. I mean, I yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, and I think the storytelling becomes really valuable, right? Because everything's gonna be real polished and easy to do, but it's still gonna take a good story or a good narrative to engage people, and um, and I think the uniqueness and kind of the creativity and the standing out is gonna really, really be important, you know, when everything is uh well written and you know looks good just on the surface, but kind of making something that's gonna really grab people. So Casper, thank you so much. This has been so great to get to connect with you and uh thank you for the insights for our audience and really appreciate it. And thank you for having me.

It was it was fun. Uh also moving down that agency territory where I have to be a bit delicate on what I'm saying, not to offend people. Oh, you're great. You're great.

Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to the Agency Hour podcast, and a massive thanks to Casper for joining us. Okay, folks, remember to subscribe and please share this with anyone who you think may need to hear it. I'm Johnny Flash. Let's get to work.